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01-14-2003, 03:24 AM

The history channel has some innaccuracies but I beleive it also has several very accurate shows especially about the Roman empire. There is one guy on the history channel all the time, Chris Kelly I beleive, who is the professor of Roman history at Oxford and of course a Phd. I see him talking about Roman everything all the time! And I doubt that he is spewing large amounts of false knowledge. 
 
I want to point out one thing. I'm a stickler for historical accuarcy as well, but I won't let that stop me from enjoying a game that has accurate Roman armies and accurate enemies. Even if that game contains battles that did not really happen, it at least allows me to participate, something none of us will ever do unless we create a time machine. Also being a student of 20 at college, I find that most kids my age could care less even about there own recent U.S history nevermind the Romans. So if a game, or a movie, or a T.V. show, even if it contains minor innaccuracies spurs their interest in history enough for them to even just do an internet search, well mission accomplished.

01-14-2003, 05:29 AM

Oh yes, and I hadn't heard of the Praetorians game untill I saw a small article about it in this months computer gaming world! Are you a lead developer of this game? If so I think that's kinda cool

01-14-2003, 05:51 AM

Just had a look at your homepage. Hope the PHD is going ok (so then you can get on with the game development!!!!!). I'd be seriously interested in doing art for the game, I have a BA in Fine Art and have just taken over the drawing site at about.com drawsketch.about.com/ 
you can see a few examples of my pencil drawing on the online tutorials. (see drawsketch.about.com/libr...reviss.htm ) 
I'd mainly be interested in doing the portrait art. I can't do animations, but I'm a good painter. I am also a Classics student and aware of the need for historical accuracy. 
 
regards 
P.S.

StrategyM · 01-14-2003, 01:12 PM

Interesting that you should mention "Teutons..." etc., since there has been a good deal of commentary on that show on AncMed (the mailing list of the Society of Ancients). Among the many inaccuracies in the first show about the Cimbri mentioned by list members was the Legionaries wearing Lorica Segmenta (only 200 years or so before it was actually invented), constant references to the Roman Empire (which, while one can argue that the Republic was an Empire, is quite confusing), claims that Gaul was part of the Roman empire (50 years before Caesar), and the depiction of the Cimbri and Teutones as a bunch of peace-loving tribesmen. Now one can always argue that such points are minor and of no importance; but IMO, the devil is in the details. If a show can't be bothered to do simple basic research, then what else on that show hasn't been properly researched? 
 
I am not about to comment on Chris Kelly, since I have no knowledge of him whatsoever. My general question whenever I hear about some guy who is always on TV is to ask how - if he is so busy doing TV programs - he gets any time to do research. More seriously, though, there are a few good historical commentators on TV, but a good deal of them are also pretty dire. 
 
Maharbal, if you enjoy a game with accurate Roman armies, then you probably won't enjoy Rome: Total War because - judging from the trailer and info so far - the game will be anything but accurate. Point taken about getting people to seek out more information; however my experience is that people prefer to simply accept what information they get, and never bother finding out if there was any inaccuracies in the information they got. 
 
Nope, I am not a developer on Praetorians. My game is called Imperium, and is a far more humble (and long-term) undertaking. Strategy 
Designer/Developer 
[url=http://"http://www.fenrir.dk/"]Imperium - Rise of Rome[/url]

StrategyM · 01-14-2003, 01:20 PM

Pictoria, please contact me off-line at [email protected] Strategy 
Designer/Developer 
[url=http://"http://www.fenrir.dk/"]Imperium - Rise of Rome[/url]

01-15-2003, 04:49 AM

Well I was just excited looking at the graphics of Roman Total war, and I was thinking that this is a very, very early development and as time progresses I'm sure it will advance and perhaps develop more historical accuracy. As for now it at least looks amazing and shows good promise (despite the ballista use lol) 
 
And you do have a good point about these historical TV shows. For many that is there only source of information so if it's wrong they never know. 
 
Must have mixed up the games there, but I was reading some about your Imperium game and that looks very good as well. Glad to see there are a few people out there developing proper games independently without a big developer forcing deadlines on them. My other favorite history topic of WWI and WWII aviation has a similar counterpart to you. Wing With Wires is developing what looks to be the greatest WWI flight sim ever created and they are in independent company (more a gorup of guys). I've known them in the online world for some time, they started building aircraft for another flight sime called SDOE, then decided to develop their own sim. You can check them out at www.wingswithwires.com if you so wish. 
 
Wow that got to far off topic for the Roman section! Please don't strike me dead o might moderators lol

01-21-2003, 06:49 PM

Ave! I must admit, I get quite the good chuckle when I read people complaining that a new game or what not won't be 100% historically accurate. When's the last time a Roman History professor tried to be 100% entertaining? My point is that obviously the general public--who will be the main force buying the game-- most likely aren't on this list, and don't care to know that one province in rome couldn't possibly produce 25000 praetorians over the course of 3 years. They just want to see huge armies clash, ballista bolts go flying, and picts go running like the little girls they are! 
 
Heh. And who can blame them! Bread and Circuses my friends! Bread and Circuses! 
 
Uale! 
 
Britannicus

01-21-2003, 08:51 PM

Wow, I totally agree. People get so wrapped up with "accuracy", it becomes an obsession. You begin to lose sight of the fact that it's just a game, or a hobby. Not a way of life. 
Magnus/Matt 
Optio 
Legio XXX "Ulpia Victrix"

***Praefectusclassis*** · 01-21-2003, 09:03 PM

Hey, my professor of Ancient History tried (tries) his best to make his lessons 100% entertaining. He even used broom and bucket to explain ancient warfare and vehement arm and hand gestures to describe Celtic and Germanic ones! E EM 
(maybe we need to supply him with some more authentic gear?) Greets 
 
Jasper

StrategyM · 01-22-2003, 08:18 AM

Quote:<hr>Heh. And who can blame them! Bread and Circuses my friends! Bread and Circuses!<hr> 
 
Which is why I tend to agree with Scott Adams; 
 
Dogbert - The world is getting more complex at an exponential rate, while the human intelligence level remains constant. In other words, humans are getting exponentially more stupid by the minute. EM 
 
Who cares whether a game is 100% accurate? What I don't like is encountering even more misinformed individuals in the world. Ignorance is a dangerous weapon in the hands of those who know how to manipulate it (as many people have demonstrated in recent years, and continue to demonstrate as we "speak"). Strategy 
Designer/Developer 
[url=http://"http://www.fenrir.dk/"]Imperium - Rise of Rome[/url]Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=strategym>StrategyM</A> at: 1/22/03 9:53:02 am

01-22-2003, 07:49 PM

True enough, however, ignoring that the phenomom exists, does about as much good as always complaining that it exists, which is almost as productive as trying to 'change' the whole thing! Even I get bored with 'historically accurate games'/books at times ... we all need mind candy of some type to stay sane, and this is from a guy who can spend up to 3 hours a day using Bablefish to translate german research journals! 
 
I've played some games that attempt to be incredibly accurate, and most of them fall far short of being entertaining because you end up 'Rule's lawyering' everything to death, and spend 1.5 hours on each turn (mostly miniture war gaming), in a game that will take 600 turns to complete. That's enough to turn a person to making chain mail instead of gaming in order to have fun! *shudder* 
 
Again, if you're looking to educate the masses--not those of us who are already interested in learning more and know something to begin with-- then get out of the Bread and Circus profession, which is all 'games' are to most people--all they are ever going to be-- and start making documentaries that feature really cool stuff and great personalities to pull it off. You *might* actually get 2 people out of your audiences to actually *get* the point you were trying to make. 
 
Just my 2 denarii on the subject. 
 
Uale! 
 
Britannicus

Thiudareiks Flavius · 01-23-2003, 05:42 AM

Pictoria wrote: 
 
Quote:<hr>As for the History Channel, we don't get it, but there's a couple of military shows on our free-to-air channels at the moment, one called something like 'Teutons, Goths and Vandals' and another 'Great Commanders of History' which this week is about Julius Caesar.<hr> 
 
SBS and ABC perchance? You an Aussie too? 
 
The Teutons, Goths, Vandals and Huns is originally a German production and was screened in Europe under the title Storm Over Europe. It's pretty good, though I noticed a lot more errors and generalisations in this week's episode than I did in the first two. Some of them seem to be problems caused by the English translation of the German orginal. I gather the Germans who researched it knew their history, but I'm not so sure about the translators. And it does try a bit hard to make the story "relevant" (the Cimbri were "economic refugees", the Visigoths were "guest workers") and to overturn the 'wild barbarian' cliches. Given that the Germanics almost never get more than a passing reference, it's great to finally see them being featured in a series like this. If I see another documentary on the bloody Celts, on the other hand (complete with Enya-style music etc) I may well start hitting things! 
 
I was flicking between The Teutons and the Caesar one (on at the same time last Tuesday, but I was taping the Teutons show) which was okay, if a bit simple. 
 
Quote:<hr>Last week we had a facinating show about Varus' lost legions. It seemed mostly pretty accurate (not sure about the costume).<hr> 
 
The Channel 4 The Lost Legions of Varus was excellent (and featured some of the members of this forum as doomed Romans), though some of its generalisations were a bit dubious and it skipped some details of the battle itself. I'll be putting a review of it on my Varus site (see below) one of these days soon. The costumes/armour were about as good as you can reasonably expect (better than The Teutons, whicih had Fourth Century soldiers in segmentata with scuta!), though the helmets were generally much later than 9 AD. 
 
I've only seen a bit of the History Channel and I can see StrategyM's point. Some of the documentaries they screen are simplistic to the point of being childish and many others are arrant nonsense. 
Cheers, Tim O'Neill / Thiudareiks Flavius 
 
Visit 'Clades Variana' - Home of the Varus Film Project 
 
Help create the film of Publius Quinctilius Varus' lost legionsEdited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thiudareiksflavius>Thiudareiks Flavius</A> at: 1/23/03 6:50:04 am

01-24-2003, 06:36 AM

Ave, fellow aussie. Hope your part of the country isn't going up in smoke. I missed last weeks Teutons et al due to a week at the beach (hoping I successfully taped Caesar...) I think I've pretty much given up on the former, it was too annoying. 
I hate historical revisionism motivated by political correctness. 
 
cheers 
Pictoria

01-27-2003, 05:44 PM

gamespot.com/gamespot/sto...tml?page=8 
 
 
New link to ingame screen shots. The scale of this game looks Huge! 
 
Enjoy! 
 
Britannicus

mcbishop · 01-27-2003, 06:33 PM

Given the degree of accuracy for which the game's developers appear to be striving, those bizarre banners are a little strange. Looks a bit like Knight's Tale... Wink

Mike Bishop

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