"Thermopylae: The Battle That Changed the World"

[floofthegoof]

Well, we know that the detour by the Persians was discovered early enough for most of the allies to leave. This is where the story gets murky and H. starts speculating. They may have left on their own, or have been sent away by Leonidas, we don't know. We do know that the allies left, and by that we can assume that Leonidas could also have left had he wanted to, but decided to stay. I don't think it is reasonable to think that Leonidas expected victory after the absence of most of his force. He stayed to cover their retreat, or to simply send a message. Those are the only two choices right?

In regards to other details about the actual last stand battle, some of them seem too arbitrary to be simply made up. Here are some of the passages. Better late than never to post the actual battle we've been discussing. Some of it is quite clearly speculation, although I detect no attempt to decieve. The deaths of famous persians can certainly be checked against persian sources to see if these people ever existed and when. If anyone can do that please do.

CCXXIII. Xerxes made libations at sunrise and waiting till about mid-morning, made his assault. Epialtes had advised this, for the descent from the mountain is more direct, and the way is much shorter than the circuit and ascent. [2] Xerxes and his barbarians attacked, but Leonidas and his Hellenes, knowing they were going to their deaths, advanced now much farther than before into the wider part of the pass. In all the previous days they had sallied out into the narrow way and fought there, guarding the defensive wall. [3] Now, however, they joined battle outside the narrows and many of the barbarians fell, for the leaders of the companies beat everyone with whips from behind, urging them ever forward. Many of them were pushed into the sea and drowned; far more were trampled alive by each other, with no regard for who perished. [4] Since the Hellenes knew that they must die at the hands of those who had come around the mountain, they displayed the greatest strength they had against the barbarians, fighting recklessly and desperately.

CCXXIV. By this time most of them had had their spears broken and were killing the Persians with swords. Leonidas, proving himself extremely valiant, fell in that struggle and with him other famous Spartans, whose names I have learned by inquiry since they were worthy men. Indeed, I have learned by inquiry the names of all three hundred.1 [2] Many famous Persians also fell there, including two sons of Darius, Abrocomes and Hyperanthes, born to Darius by Phratagune daughter of Artanes. Artanes was the brother of king Darius and son of Hystaspes son of Arsames. When he gave his daughter in marriage to Darius, he gave his whole house as dowry, since she was his only child.

CCXXV. Two brothers of Xerxes accordingly fought and fell there. There was a great struggle between the Persians and Lacedaemonians over Leonidas' body, until the Hellenes by their courageous prowess dragged it away and routed their enemies four times. The battle went on until the men with Epialtes arrived. [2] When the Hellenes saw that they had come, the contest turned, for they retired to the narrow part of the way, passed behind the wall, and took their position crowded together on the hill, all except the Thebans. This hill is at the mouth of the pass, where the stone lion in honor of Leonidas now stands. [3] In that place they defended themselves with swords, if they still had them, and with hands and teeth. The barbarians buried them with missiles, some attacking from the front and throwing down the defensive wall, others surrounding them on all sides.

CCXXVI. This then is how the Lacedaemonians and Thespians conducted themselves, but the Spartan Dieneces is said to have exhibited the greatest courage of all. They say that he made the following speech before they joined battle with the Medes: he had learned from a Trachinian that there were so many of the barbarians that when they shot their missiles, the sun was hidden by the multitude of their arrows. [2] He was not at all disturbed by this and made light of the multitude of the Medes, saying that their Trachinian foreigner brought them good news. If the Medes hid the sun, they could fight them in the shade instead of in the sun. This saying and others like it, they claim, Dieneces the Lacedaemonian left behind as a memorial.

CCXXVII. Next after him two Lacedaemonian brothers, Alpheus and Maron, sons of Orsiphantus, are said to have been most courageous. The Thespian who gained most renown was one whose name was Dithyrambus son of Harmatides.

.......*poems left and story of unfortunate messanger survivors*

CCXXXIII. The Thebans, whose general was Leontiades, fought against the king's army as long as they were with the Hellenes and under compulsion. When, however, they saw the Persian side prevailing and the Hellenes with Leonidas hurrying toward the hill, they split off and approached the barbarians, holding out their hands. With the most truthful words ever spoken, they explained that they were Medizers, had been among the first to give earth and water to the king, had come to Thermopylae under constraint, and were guiltless of the harm done to the king. [2] By this plea they saved their lives, and the Thessalians bore witness to their words. They were not, however, completely lucky. When the barbarians took hold of them as they approached, they killed some of them even as they drew near. Most of them were branded by Xerxes command with the kings marks, starting with the general Leontiades.(ouch!) His son Eurymachus long afterwards1 was murdered by the Plataeans when, as general of four hundred Thebans, he seized the town of Plataea.

.....*long conversation between Xerxes and Demaratus(ex-Spartan king) and also Achaemenes(Xerxes brother and admiral of the fleet). Possible source of such a high level internal discussion must be a complete mystery. Very curious indeed.

CCXXXVIII. Having spoken in this way, Xerxes passed over the place where the dead lay and hearing that Leonidas had been king and general of the Lacedaemonians, he gave orders to cut off his head and impale it. [2] It is plain to me by this piece of evidence among many others, that while Leonidas lived, king Xerxes was more incensed against him than against all others; otherwise he would never have dealt so outrageously with his dead body, for the Persians are beyond all men known in the habit of honoring valiant warriors. They, then, who received these orders did as I have said.

The discussions between Xerxes and his advisors are very suspect to me. The only way these conversations could see daylight is if there were many witnesses to them. In a time where news travelled relatively slowly, perhaps informational security was not foremost in the mind of Xerxes.

However, even Eisenhauer and Churchill wrote in detail about their battle plans after the war. This Demaratus character is a strange inclusion into the narrative. I wonder if he himself perhaps wrote about his experience in the Persian court. I can see no other possible source.