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Show here your Greek warrior impression
Thank you very much for the comments. I am hoping to get brass and bronze versions of the pilos and boeotian helmets commercially available, with an aspis and bronze thorax to follow. Not for profit, but just to make kit more readily available. It's been very enjoyable developing the equipment and look forward to a summer of falling off horses trying to ride as a Greek. I have some ideas from Xenophon I wish to try out, and a few ideas of my own.
John Conyard

York

A member of Comitatus Late Roman
Reconstruction Group

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.comitatus.net">http://www.comitatus.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.historicalinterpretations.net">http://www.historicalinterpretations.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com">http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com
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Always a fan of Xenophon! Charge ahead!!
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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[Image: 5029_115457126203_681611203_2855223_4905949_n.jpg]

Finally finished my scale shirt.

Taxeis Plataia, at our first event.

[Image: 5029_115457111203_681611203_2855221_8373712_n.jpg]

More photos on Facebook, at [url:8ph8f873]http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=119864&id=681611203&page=2#/album.php?aid=119864&id=681611203[/url]
Qui plus fait, miex vault.
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Wow, kudos to you, John! Just saw your kit. Wow!
Qui plus fait, miex vault.
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Excellent kit and equipment. The scales certainly make an impression. As an experiment I would like to try an arrow or spear against them Smile

Do you have some sort of African thing going on? It's a very Maasai style stance. And........do I see a heel on the sandal ?:lol:

What sort of leather was used in the tube and yoke? Vegetable tanned, but whitened with alum? The repousee work on the copper alloy plates looks really nice.

I'm very jealous.

I've spent a few days lately as a Greek cavalryman and I'm learning slowly.
John Conyard

York

A member of Comitatus Late Roman
Reconstruction Group

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.comitatus.net">http://www.comitatus.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.historicalinterpretations.net">http://www.historicalinterpretations.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com">http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com
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Very nice pictures Kineas. I like your scale armor a lot Big Grin
Kallimachos a.k.a. Kurt

Athina Itonia
[Image: smallsun1.gif]
[url=http://www.hetairoi.de:4a9q46ao][/url]
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(Blushes) Thanks!

I'll post the whole scale construction process now.

Heels on sandals--guilty as charged. When we were down to the wire on our first event, I purchased commercially made thonged sandals for 15 people. We know better and in a year we'll be there, but right now, something had to be slipped. We actually emphasized camp impression over fighting--that's what we do in our other period. I posted some pics on the event thread and you can see the whole series on facebook at [url:3dqmw1s1]http://www.facebook.com/cgcameron?ref=name#/album.php?aid=119864&id=681611203[/url].

And we used British Army tents circa 1777 and we used 2 British Army mess kettles to augment our bronze kettle. Feeding 15 people requires some gear.

As to the Masai thing--I spent a year there, and I have to admit that I see 6th C. BC Greeks through a filter of Masai and Samburu culture. We actually spent our "drill" time practicing the way Masai practice, vice doing drills--seemed to work, too. But that's an argument for another thread!

I like your Boeotian and your whole cavalry impression. Someday, maybe we'll get together!
Qui plus fait, miex vault.
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Hell, I just joined facebook to see the rest of your pics, congrats :lol:
Kallimachos a.k.a. Kurt

Athina Itonia
[Image: smallsun1.gif]
[url=http://www.hetairoi.de:4a9q46ao][/url]
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All the pics so far are at [url:1a47b8lo]http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157620597792305/[/url]

Still waiting for some pics for Saturday, when we had all our hoplites out and also did needlefelt fighting.
Qui plus fait, miex vault.
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Kineas, too good!!!. The "Maasai" pose is very typical also of Australian aboriginals. Very nice to see the youn uns and ladies involved.
Peter Raftos
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The kids, from 10 yrs old and up were used as psiloi during the battle scenarios. The command was given, they ran forward and threw javelins and spears, then retire out of the way to let the hoplites fight. A sling was also used to harrass the enemy force. At future events, slings will be used to better effect with volleys of "glands". It's all a learning experience.
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Retire out of the way? does that mean via the flanks or through open order ranks? (I'm guessing you didn't really have enough Hopkites to test this)
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
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10 hoplites in 2 ranks and 5 Psiloi. So the Hoplites maintained 6 feet between men, leaving the psiloi plenty of room to go to and fro--the normal order in Arrian.

I know--you guys all think they locked shields to fight. we don't. We like a nice space to fight in, room to run, room to live.

Antithetical to the received wisdom, but c'est la vie. Smile And it allows the Psiloi to move in and out. remember--we're in 500 BC, not 425, and in period, I suspect that most "phalanxes" may have fought in 2-4 ranks and had archers int he ranks--at least,that's the best way to make sense of the some of the evidence--evidence that many gamers and reenactors tend to ignore as it doesn't fit the accepted answer. We actually practiced shooting from between hoplites with period bows--went very well. In fact, it is remarkably easy--almost as if the round Aspis is designed to allow the archer to shoot from the front right of the rim. And in the "normal" order the archers can scoot away pretty easily if it is going to come to hand to hand, too.

But until we have 36-60 hoplites to test these ideas, this is informed speculation. Or even uninformed speculation!
Qui plus fait, miex vault.
Reply
So your Hoplites actually fought in 'open' order? ........the use of psiloi in the fashion you describe seems to be described by the Spartan poet Tyrtaeus - but probably by 500 BC, fighting in close order was the norm ( so far as we can tell from scanty information)
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
Reply
We fought in open order.

Now, before you think we've run mad--we're trying out the experimental technique of trying to train like hunters, vice trying to train like modern soldiers doing drill. So for example, we practiced moving over ground in a constantly flowing group, running together, and attacking a formed body as a flowing mass that surround, amoeba like--the way I've seen Masai practice.


This may not work at all. But we'd like to experiment with it and out thought is that we can always fall back on drill and order and locked shields, which most of us have done before. We will ALSO experiment with formed bodies and othismos and all that.
Qui plus fait, miex vault.
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