Roman horses

[Caius Titius Verus]

Hello there,

I'm planning on putting together a roman cavlry impression.

However I have a problem with an essential part of it...what type of horse should I use? What should be the height?

Is there any historical information about this?

Would a "haflinger" be ok to use? ( 1.40-1.50 m in height)

Thanks in advance,

Tom

[caiusbeerquitius]

Hi!
Junkelmann used Camargue horses. I guess a Haflinger would be O.K., too. Maybe an Icelander? Read
Junkelmann, Marcus

- Die Reiter Roms. Teil 1, Reise, Jagd, Triumph und Circusrennen, von Zabern, Mainz 1990
- Die Reiter Roms. Teil 2, Der militärische Einsatz, von Zabern, Mainz 1991
- Die Reiter Roms. Teil 3, Zubehör, Reitweise, Bewaffnung, von Zabern, Mainz 1992

[Caius Titius Verus]

Thanks Caius!

Think I'll order those books :-) )

Kind regards,
Tom

[Lepidina]

A halflinger would probably be okay but it's a bit heavier than the Roman horses. Their horses were around large pony size which is obvious from the proportions of riders to horses. Arabs have been around since the dawn of time so they are an obvious choice, tho' many of them are too hyper for reenactments. Classic pony breeds are a good choice like Connemara, Welsh, Dartmoor, and Fell ponies. (I'd KILL for a Fell pony. )

Here's a good site on Roman cavalry and horses: http://www.trajan20.freeserve.co.uk/

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

At north Spain there is actually a type of horse called Asturcon, small and long haired.

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/horses/asturian/




Its descends from original roman-celtic horses. There are very easy to ride, so i think is the better choice to re-enact a roman horse

[Peroni]

Here's a good site on Roman cavalry and horses: http://www.trajan20.freeserve.co.uk/

Someone beat me to it!

This is my good friend Nigel Apperley's website.

[Arthes]

The only problem with the Asturian, is that they are a rare breed, it says.
12-14h I think was average, with occasionally 15h and as Lepidina says...the Fell pony is probably the closest you can get. Fell Pony
The society have done research into the use of these ponies by the Roman cavalry..and the possibility that they were the horses used by the Romano British warrior elite aka Arthur and his knights...I have had some contact with Sue Millard via a historical discussion group.
Of course, it also depends on the era you are portraying and more importantly, your financial budget ...as mentioned....!
regards
Arthes

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

If you live in Belgium, you sure knows the group Corpus Equitum Leg X. They have one roman cavalryman impression of the I century BC.

I do'nt know what's the horse they use, but at Tarraco Viva they use Spain Horses (arab?)

[Lepidina]

This is my good friend Nigel Apperley's website.

It's an excellent site but can you tell him to tone down the music. Pretty please?

There are plenty of old breeds around that are suitable for Roman cav but the rare ones are expensive and hard to get. For example, I was looking for a Fell pony here in the US. There are a few breeders and most start around $10,000. If you want one cheaper, you have to get it as a weanling or yearling and raise it yourself. That means you can't ride it until it is 3 and really can't do any heavy work until it is at least 4 or 5.

In the UK and Europe, they are a little easier to find and cheaper but you still have to pay for upkeep which includes hoof trims and or/shoes, feed, vet bills, and vaccinations.

Someone on another list advocated mustangs, which are sold cheaply through the BLM auctions. Another great idea, but if you are on the East Coast like me, the closest mustang auction is like Illinois. My $300 pony has now turned into a $2300 pony with shipping, plus it needs to be trained to saddle and all that good stuff.

[JP Vieira]

Hi
another good source for you is the Portuguese race called Garrano (sometime also called Minho). You can find a lot of information and pictures on the internet (also in english). This is a very ancient race that was limited to the north mountains of Portugal for centuries perserving their ancient caracteristics.
I hope this is of vaue to you.
Best regards
JP Vieira

[Arriana]

Hi everyone,

I am new on this forum and envited by Jasper to comment on the Roman Horses subject. I am currently working on Roman Cavalry training and tactics as a PhD candidate and as a horse enthusiast. You can visit my website about Thoroughbreds: www.volbloeds.nl (it's in Dutch).

I have found that the Principal or Emperial Roman Army has used the larger breeds of horses, preferably with some Berber influences like the Libyan horse. I still got no proof for Arabian horses being around at that time. (is there anybody here who does? I would be delighted)
They recognised nevertheless that some breeds of horses had more intelligence and were more swift on the battlefield as well as on the racecourse. Due to that fact there was a development in horsebreeding in the Roman world towards lighter and speedier horses like the Spanish breeds. These probably had Berber influences.

In the Netherlands archaeologists have found horseskeletons of which the heights measure from 110 - 160 (!) cm. Therefore I think that any horse within these would be ok. The Romans have used a variety of breeds and types. I think that if you want to buy a horse for re-enactment you should look at its temperament and eagerness to work with you instead of the 'right' breed.
A Haflinger with some Arabian blood in it would be a great comrade in battle I believe and they would be 'cheap' to buy. Icelanders can be expensive to purchase and can also be quite a handful to ride. The Spanish horses mentioned on the forum are 'rare' breeds and therefore probably expensive and you would have to ship the horse from Spain.

Arriana
(Annelies Koolen)

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

Welcome to RAT Annelies!, great to have another dutchie here!

I still got no proof for Arabian horses being around at that time. (is there anybody here who does? I would be delighted)

according to this site:
horsecare.stablemade.com/_articles/arabian.htm Arabian horses only came into Europe during medieval times.

[Praefectusclassis]

Hoi Annelies!
Welcome to RAT!

[Caius Fabius]

How do the Spanish horses mention compare to the Wild Mustangs in the USA? They are the offspring, mostly, of the Horses brought by Spaniards in the 16th and 17th century. They are usually small and usually fast and sturdy. They are also wild and relatively 'cheap' in the USA, where they are often slaughtered for pet food.

[Lepidina]

I still got no proof for Arabian horses being around at that time.

You mean not in Europe as opposed to not existing right? I'll agree that the Arabian wasn't really imported to Europe until the spread of Islam but they were in use in many areas that Rome conquered. Plus they were cross-bred into many other breeds so Arabian blood probably filtered into Europe long before the actual horses got there.

As for mustangs, there are some different breeds of them and some are more "pure" than others. The Spanish mustang and the Kieger mustang are supposedly the closest to the original Spanish horses.

Looking through the horse breeds, the pony breeds seem to be the most changed throughout history. Horse breeds are the more "modern" ones that have been developed in more recent times. Kind of interesting. Other breeds to consider are Norwegian Fjords and the Caspian horse. The University of Oklahoma has a pretty comprehensive online registry of livestock breeds, including horses:

www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/

I've got the big honking dictionary of horse breeds at home that I'll look through and see if I can find any more "ancient" breeds. One line of research is to look up what kinds of horses were used by the ancient Celts as there are many references to breeds being decended from Celtic horses but not much on the original breeds themselves.