Login

07-30-2003, 11:50 PM

StrategyM I did not say that Scipio raised a Paerorian Guard - you sem to think that everyone must equate Praetorian units with the later Guard - I do not - the 2 are quite seperate. 
 
Extraordinarii are not, AFAIK noted as being used for bodyguards - I'd be interested in your references for this. Rather they were used for advance guards and special missions, and they were generally Italians were they not? 
 
I also did not say that Praetorian units were battle-field bodyguards - I said they were HEADQUARTERS guards - the headquarters being a particular place in a Roman camp. I completely agree that Roman generals made their own arrangements for their battlefield bodyguards. 
 
within the period of RTW the Praetorian Guard as a unit started out as a group of hardened veteran legionaries. Later on, despite the propaganda you put forth, they ALWAYS accompanied the emperor on campaign - it was simply not true that they devolved to useles troops - as their batlefield performance shows. 
 
They were NOT as hardened as various border legions for sure, but neitehr were they soft sybarites who couldn't fight.

08-03-2003, 05:06 PM

About the Praetorians, I have some sort of obsession with them. (Fun historical figures I guess.). According to Dr. Boris Rankov, Augustus Praetorian Guard of 31 BC was created after he consolidated the Praetorian Cohorts of Antony and his own Praetorian Cohorts (Apparently they took some of Caesar's men, split them into bodyguards and went to their own ends of the Republic while triumvirs.) As cool as they look in crested helms and breastplates that stuff really does look as if it only belongs on officers and Rankov uses material from Tactitus that would indicate but for the shield design, a Praetorian would be hard to distinguish from another legionary. 
 
The game looks cool but why have Triarii without the Hastati, Velites, and Principes? I'm not a big manipular legion fan but if you're going to include the Triarii then why not the rest? 
 
Salve General Ng 
10th Praetorian Rifles: Caesar's Eagles 
 
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori ("A sweet and decorous thing it is to die for one's country") - Horace

08-04-2003, 11:29 AM

"The game looks cool but why have Triarii without the Hastati, Velites, and Principes? I'm not a big manipular legion fan but if you're going to include the Triarii then why not the rest?" 
 
The developers are releasing a unit update each week. So, I'm hoping that they will get around to the Hastati, Velites, and Principes eventually. 
 
Barkhorn.

JRSCline · 08-04-2003, 03:02 PM

Mmmmm. Do you suppose the game will require Roman players to use the triarii, hastati, and principes in the appropriate ratio, or will you be able to field an army entirely composed of hastati? 
 
Cheers 
Jenny

08-04-2003, 04:50 PM

Jenny; 
 
We do know that players will be limited by city population in terms of how many troops you can raise. However, I would doubt they would figure "age brackets" into it. But who knows at this point?? 
 
BTW, I would end up purchasing all principes - since these guys were in their prime. 
 
Barkhorn.

JRSCline · 08-04-2003, 07:31 PM

Well, if there are any of the usual pluses and minuses, rock-scissor-paper purchasing principles built into RTW, then there will probably be some benefit to diversifying one's legionaries. 
 
Perhaps triarii will be the slowest, but best defensively, like spearmen, with the highest morale and armor. While hastati and principes will be faster, but hastati lack much armor and have lower morale, and principes have good armor and normal morale. And all will have an excellent attack, let's say, because the legion was always a straightforward meatgrinding machine. 
 
Perhaps the hastati and principes could suffer a drop in morale if the triarii are too far out of "rescue" range. 
 
Cheers 
Jenny

08-10-2003, 09:35 AM

For me one of the greatest hopes is 'Parthian archers' type. They are promised to be able to shoot backward while retreating . I hope there will be some ways to advance their 'fire' (arrows) efficiency. 
 
In the previous TW games cavalry and archers were greatly underestimated. For instance, if your cavalry unit got involved in a fight it was almost impossible to get him out if circumstances demanded that. Not too real. 
And however much a unit got arrows it shook his moral, but didn't slow it's movement. But we all know, that at some point a unit (or a whole army) could be forsed to stuck at place, unable to move a step, getting enough missiles into their masses. 
If these mistakes are improved I hope to get Parthian armies into Rome. 
A few elefants would be handy for that too . 
 
And I would like to make a real battle with infantry in the centre, cavalry at flanks, scirmishers in front of the line and the like. Such battles were often in the past. But TW series didn't 'like' them. 
Try to model Cannes at any TW game! It won't work. Something wrong with it. 
 
Regards, 
 
warrior11 
<img src="http://www.chathome.com.ua/smile/182.gif" style="border:0;"/>

Jeroen Pelgrom · 08-11-2003, 06:08 AM

hmm, 
 
my favorite tactic in TW is the "cannae manouvre". Works every time against the computer. 
In TW i always place inf in the centre, cav on the flanks and some in reserve. Archers behind the inf. Manouvre your cav to the back of your enemy, let your inf attack. After some time, attack with your cav the back of your enemy. The enemies formations will soon collapse. This works even better if your troops have a high morale. 
 
works every time 
 
In TW the mounted arches have to stand still in order to shoot. They would have to get rid of that in order the parthian archers to work. 
 
gr, jeroen

08-11-2003, 01:11 PM

As a matter of fact, I did it too. But after some time I understood that some infantry units would have done that better, for instance, warrior monks or the like. A little less speed, but MUCH more strengh. And I noticed that bestead by enemies units don't lose too much morale. 
 
My point was that the computer's armies don't 'like' classic formation I was talking about. Maybe it was real Japanese style, not sure. 
I miss classical Hellenistic, Roman battles. 
 
Then one more thing. During a big battle on the field the computer manipulates each unit and you don't have that possibility, the battle would have been paused every second. That is not very real. we know that when the battle begins, the commander has little influence on it. At least he can give orders to the left flank or the reserve or the centre. It is not a chess game. 
And big space (distance) between units. I would prefer long line (a wall of shields). 
 
Regards, 
 
warrior11 
<img src="http://www.chathome.com.ua/smile/182.gif" style="border:0;"/>

08-11-2003, 08:54 PM

Hello, 
 
just to add some facts to the discussion, have a look at this (sorry, it's german): www.gamestar.de/magazin/p...gie/13394/ 
 
 
Michael

08-17-2003, 03:08 PM

in an interview with that magazine chief developer Mike Simpson said this about 'historical accuracy': 
 
 Interviewer: Ã¢â‚¬Å“How historical do you want Ã¢â‚¬Å“RomeÃ¢â‚¬Â

08-17-2003, 04:10 PM

Ã¢â‚¬Å“ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s actually quite difficult to find the answers to some of these questions, because a lot of what people think of is history is invented by historians and isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t actually real and when you go back to the original classical sources things are slightly different.Ã¢â‚¬Â

08-18-2003, 04:01 AM

Those 4 items are all relatively well attested to as being used in the era. 
 
What's completley a-historical however is Egyptian Chariots - alongside "Egyptian archers" it appears as if the Egyptians are going to be modelled on the New Kingdom or some other pre-successor Pharonic dynasty (or more likely a silly combination of many of them! ).

08-18-2003, 11:45 AM

"Those 4 items are all relatively well attested to as being used in the era." 
 
Yea - sure they were. 
 
- Gladiator's = give me ONE ancient source that attests to gladiator units being used - as units - in a Roman army. 
- War dogs = ditto 
- Flaming pigs = these were used like - ONCE! And they were NOT used at most of major battles w/ Rome vs. who ever and elephants 
- Fully armored elephants = again source please?? 
 
Come on man - these are pretty much fantasy units that CA is throwing in to pull in the "sword and sandals" crowd. The kind of audience that sits through the movie "Gladiator" and congratulates themselves on now knowing Roman history. 
 
One hopes that CA is done now. 
 
Barkhorn.

***Praefectusclassis*** · 08-18-2003, 12:05 PM

Gladiators were used in combat by Vitellius' commanders against Vespasian's troops during their march into Italy. See Tacitus, Historiae III.57. Greets 
 
Jasper

Login
Username:
Password:	Lost Password?
	Remember me

Possibly Related Threads…
Thread		Author	Replies	Views	Last Post
	Latest Rome Total War Updates	Anonymous	15	2,949	07-31-2004, 03:13 AM Last Post: Octavianvs