Backing hamata doubling with rawhide

[John M McDermott]

Here is my latest experiment with backing the mail doubling using rawhide. I have long felt that the doubling was useless without backing it with a tough substance. The backing is bleached rawhide. The mail is sewn on, then the rawhide backed in doeskin, with enough left on the edge to fold over and sew over the edge of the doubler.

When wearing a hamata over a padded subarmalis, my ten year old was able to whack me with a fireplace poker without my feeling much.

[John M McDermott]

I used a 2mm thick piece of bleached rawhide like this. When you apply the mail over the natural curve of the rawhide, it is unnecessary to form it.

[Martin Wallgren]

Cool

[Robert Vermaat]

What's the added value of the mail when you already have the rawhide?

[Matt Lukes]

I'm not sure I really see the argument the same way you do John- the doubling is simply to make the mail thicker in an area where an overhead swing would hit it with rather a lot of force- perhaps enough to split a single layer, yes? Because mail isn't particularly good at protecting from the accompanying blunt trauma, I'd expect good padding underneath- so why then would it be necessary to put anything between the doubler and the shirt? I'd expect anything between the two layers of mail to get kind of chewed up over time just from the movement of the mail too- when the wearer walks or whatever because it gets rubbed from both sides.

Another question is one of material- rawhide would get flexible and rather nasty when it got wet, and it would also putrify. Because it's between two layers of mail, you can't really paint it or otherwise apply any surface protection...

Not criticising or anything- these are just issues I see

[Emeraldweapon7d]

doesn't rawhide become all soft and slimey if it gets wet? aren't you worried about it rotting?

[Tarbicus]

doesn't rawhide become all soft and slimey if it gets wet? aren't you worried about it rotting?

Treating it with linseed oil to the point of it being a varnish apparently makes it waterproof.

I like the idea of rawhide on the shoulders, but I intend to make it part of the subarmalis. Leather is rubbish as Junkelmann seems to have found out with his leather faced cavalry shields against cavalry practice javelins (wooden tips only).

[John M McDermott]

The reason for the rawhide is to create a sort of composite armor. If you have doubts as to the effectiveness of my experiment, try it yourself. The rawhide adds immeasureably to the ability to resist blunt trauma, where virtually none existed before.

Rawhide seems to be no more perishable then any of the other materials in use.

[Emeraldweapon7d]

doesn't rawhide become all soft and slimey if it gets wet? aren't you worried about it rotting?

Treating it with linseed oil to the point of it being a varnish apparently makes it waterproof.

I like the idea of rawhide on the shoulders, but I intend to make it part of the subarmalis. Leather is rubbish as Junkelmann seems to have found out with his leather faced cavalry shields against cavalry practice javelins (wooden tips only).

it can really do that? how is it supposed to be treated? boiling, soaking, brushed on?

[Robert Vermaat]

I like the idea of rawhide on the shoulders, but I intend to make it part of the subarmalis.

How? Best answer this in the subarmalis thread... :?

[Tarbicus]

Answered under the Padded Armour thread

[caiusbeerquitius]

Leather is rubbish as Junkelmann seems to have found out with his leather faced cavalry shields against cavalry practice javelins (wooden tips only).

No, he did not actually see that this was a problem that had to do with the materials. Did you read my thesis?
Christian

[Tarbicus]

Leather is rubbish as Junkelmann seems to have found out with his leather faced cavalry shields against cavalry practice javelins (wooden tips only).

No, he did not actually see that this was a problem that had to do with the materials. Did you read my thesis?
Christian

I did, and that's where I got my info from :? I wasn't referring to Junkelmann's opinion, I was referring to yours, but I obviously worded it badly. I certainly consider five penetrations with wooden tipped, blunt javelins in a single session to be rather alarming, which you seem to say yourself supporting rawhide as a much better protection.

[Matt Lukes]

The reason for the rawhide is to create a sort of composite armor. If you have doubts as to the effectiveness of my experiment, try it yourself. The rawhide adds immeasureably to the ability to resist blunt trauma, where virtually none existed before.

Rawhide seems to be no more perishable then any of the other materials in use.

Oh I don't doubt the effectiveness or your experiment John- just the material and its inherent issues. :wink: It's meerly the fact that when wet it becomes virtually the opposite of itself dry and gets slimy and will putrefy that made it seem rather less appropriate than thick tanned leather which doesn't change much in its efficacy when wet and doesn't rot.

Now when you say it seems no less perishable than other materials, do you mean with respect to rotting or to my wondering about why you placed it under the doubler as opposed to under the shirt?

[Tarbicus]

Linseed oil should help with the waterproofing. [url:233dr5zx]http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?p=89515#89515[/url]

Rawhide must have been a lot easier to acquire then than prepared leather. If the rawhide becomes useless throw it away and put in some new rawhide? It's not as if it's a finely crafted piece of clothing or footwear, and not everything has to be intended to last forever.