Sub-Roman Britain (Cavalry etc)

[Alanus]

Hi guys,

I've heard Cagwinn's explanation of the origin of the name "Alan" before. Yet how odd it is that such a "popular" Celtic name does not show up in the pedigrees until about four generations after Saloman, who indeed may not have been Celtic since his own name could easily be taken from the old reference to "salta mon," ie "he who uses salt," oft a nobleman of Germanic or Alanic extraction.

Salomon is a Christian/Biblical name (a variant of Solomon). Biblical names were increasingly popular among Britons in the early middle ages. I fail to see how one can derive any meaningful information about Alanic settlements in Brittany from the position of the name Alan in a pedigree, especially if the ethnic name Alani and the personal name Alan are not etymologically related, as seems to be the case (the ethnic name Alani had a long -a- in its second syllable; if it was borrowed by Brittonic speakers, it would have produced an Old Breton/Welsh/Cornish *Alon, not Alan).

PS: And thanks to whomever mentioned that the reference to Britons cutting out Alanic women's tongues was inaccurate and unfounded, especially when we consider the number of intermarriages between the two reasonably close cultures. The old Brut used by Nennius even claimed the Britons descended from "Alanus, the first man in Europe."

This is a known corruption of Tacitus' legendary (and ultimately mythological) genealogy of the Germani (Tacitus mentions three tribes - Ingvaeones, Irminones, Istvaeones - who claimed descent from Mannus son of Tuisto; this ended up being adopted by early medieval pseudo-historians and corrupted into three brothers - Erminus, Inguo and Istio - who were descended from Alanus/Allanus/Alaneus/Analeus [plus other variant spellings of these names in the various pseudo-histories]). I believe (following Zeuss & Grimm) that the form Alanus (et al) is simply a misreading of Mannus and has nothing to do whatsoever with the Alani.

I really don't care how the name Alan-Alani was pronounced. Pronunciaton has nothing to do with origin. The Italians pronounce and spell Joseph as Guiseppi, but it's still Joseph. In your mind, everything-- entomolically speaking-- stems from the Celtic language. Obviously, you're an admirer of it; but unfortunately, a lot of other languages were used directly adjacent to Celtic speakers, sometimes only a few miles away in the case of Alanic (spoken in Orleans) and Gothic (spoken by Taifali of Nantes). And to say, or in fact insist, that there was no cultural borrowing between these groups is speaking with a closed mind.

The passages in Nennius do not refer to any of the "sons" of "Mannus" and it's highly doubtful any legendary Brut was directly influenced by Tacitus' Germania. Before accepting Zeuss & Grimm, please read Nennius (or Mark the Anchorite).

Perhaps "Saloman" was a varient of the Hebrew Solomon. Perhaps not! That is your opinion but it doesn't make "salt-a-mon" any wronger. 8)

On a happier note, I'd like to thank Aligern for the nice piece on Bachrach, above.