Helmet Lining

[emj1s]

Would the romans have used animal fur to line their helmets. Say rabbit fur. I got alot for cheap and decided to try it. On a cold day it keeps the cheeks from stingins you and its quite comfortable.

[Magnus]

What about a hot day? How hard is the fur to clean, as opposed to leather or felt in the cheek pieces?

[emj1s]

I dont know yet, I havent really used it in the field. But I have no idea how to actually clean it. i was probably going to use Fabreez It really just seperates the steel from your face, I cant see a difference on a Hot day... yet.

[M. Demetrius]

Rabbit fur sheds until there's no fur left. It works great for cold day shoe liner until it gets wet, then it's totally miserable, I found out.

Shearling sheep is better, because it's warm even when it IS wet, and it's not so bad in the heat. After all, they do make car seat covers from it, and they're to be used year 'round.

Rabbit skins make good bedding, though. You can cut them in a spiral strip around an inch wide, twist them so the fur is on the outside, and make a loose weave blanket like the Ute Indians did in the Pacific NW USA. Stops the icy wind. Soft. But they still shed.

[Matt Lukes]

Yeah, I use sheepskin with the wool on for shoulder padding in my segmentata, at the crown of my helmet, and inside the umbo of my scutum- it's lovely stuff. I would wonder if the rabbit fur will shed quickly if a helmet is worn lots and my initial thought is that it'd be uncomfortable on a warm day- although I've never tried it. I just use leather, flesh side out myself.

[Gaius Germanicus]

Just curious , was there any standardization in the type of helmet linings used or was it up to the wearer what he would use? Are there any ancient references on their composition and construction?

[Matt Lukes]

To my knowledge virtually no evidence for linings exists- I've heard of one example of some kind of fabric apparently glued in place, but that's it and I don't even know if it's certain this was lining.

[Matthew Amt]

Avete!

There is a description of two soldiers getting water from a well by lowering in one's helmet padding to soak up the water. But the expression used for the lining apparently best translates as "wad of rags"! So I'd say No, nothing standardized. Probably they cut up last month's tunic for lining, socks, subarmalis, cleaning rags...

Fabreez?!? Blasphemer! When your helmet lining looks like old bacon, pull it out and make a new one! (All right, maybe slightly before it looks like old bacon...)

Matthew

[rusty myers]

We used shearling lamb to line our greaves. Certainly increased the padding ratio from leather, but there is a definite warming as well! They insulate great! Sometimes they are downright hot. Not sure I want that insulating my face, but from a durability perspective the shearling looks nearly new after 2 years... No itching either... or all the wool I wear has made me immune.

These guys sell some lambskin seconds really inexpensively, perfect for linings or tent rugs! http://stores.ebay.com/ACS-Trading-Post

They have 1st quality too.

[emj1s]

LOL!! Matt, the fabreez is just for minor smells, it wont make it look clean at all, just less sweaty smelling. And from what others have said, the fur will shed out quickly so ill have to change it out

[Gaius Germanicus]

Matt L , Thank you for your reply and I wasn't sure if anything as fragile as linen , fabric , animal hide , etc, would have survived to this time so I was curious what people based their liners on and what materials they used...

So I guess it's basically anything goes as long as it is functional and uses period materials?

[Gaius Germanicus]

Thank you also Matthew for your information of the ancient account of the 2 soldiers getting water , is this the only known reference of a helmet liner being mentioned?

I had cut up some wool felt into pie sections and hide glued them into the inside of the helmet and made some linen pouches for the cheek guards...


Also was the use of cotton a "new world" innovation or was cotton harvested in the ancient world and did the plant exist there??

[Gaius Germanicus]

Matthew , on a separate subject I had viewed your website as well as the information you post on helmets which I found very informative... Could you have a look at the Deepeeka forum Italic D post....

Dan Peterson had posted that the depth of the back of the helmet was too deep on the improved D compared to the original example of this helmet and that this was a major problem that needed to be corrected.

I looked at the improved model D and then at the original helmet and it does look like the back is rather deep compared to the original and is appx an inch too long , it is especially noticeable when looking and comparing the back of the ear guard on both the original and repro..

Dan brought up some good points but I did not see anyone mentioning if this would be corrected and was wondering was this a serious defect that absolutely would not be in an the original from that period?

I know this is difficult to answer as I believe there is only one of these in existence but from the time period of this helmet would the longer / deeper helmet back be correct ?

Its a very beautiful helmet and they did a lot of work to improve it but it would be ashame if it was still off because of an inch or so in the rear helmet depth that could be removed simply at the factory...

[Tarbicus]

That's a bit of an exaggeration. The new Deepeeka is not even an inch out, but more like half an inch. Unless someone wants to persuade the museum to measure the thing with a micrometer then probably no repro will be accurate. Better surely to put energy into this:
link from old RAT

[Gaius Germanicus]

Jim; Thank you for posting the link and it looks interesting and I will check it out , the reason I mentioned making it an appx inch shorter to be the same as the original, is that I enlarged both pictures and compared them in the area of the ear guard and the repro looked appx an inch too big.
It was only an estimate as I did not have the helmet in hand but from the comparison it looks like to match the reproduction to the original the neck guard needed to be attached in the area of the 3rd rivet on the repro...

My question was really could there be legitimate variation from that time period where the extra length in the back could be considered normal..

or

Was this short size helmet back something that manifests itself in all the helmets from that time and to lengthen it is to really make something different?

I would love to hear opinions on this as I really don't know and understand this is rather a difficult question as only one of these survived so we can't see if it was a set pattern or a set style with some variation...