Cavalry breaches

[Robert]

Salvete!

Has the topic on buckskin cavalry breaches ever been raised?
I am trying to get hold of a good pattern to make riding breaches from. We wish to raise half a turmae of cavalry for the planned theme park (sorry, no English site yet)

[Jona Lendering]

Has the topic on buckskin cavalry breaches ever been raised?

I can not remember it - but that's not why I am posting this. I just want to say: welcome!

[Robert Vermaat]

Hallo Robert,

Welcome to RAT and please keep us posted if there are devlopments in the Roman Park business!

[Robert]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the welcome! Still leaves me without the horse-nickers, but as with the theme park, patience is a virtue. Are working hard on a new site, same address, so check there from time to time for progress. Will try to get the English and German version up and running, too. This place could become re-enactment heaven! We're setting aside a full barracks for Roman visitors.

[Peroni]

I have made buck skin femenalia.

I basically used the same pattern for them as the Thorsberg trousers, but made them narrower in the leg.

[M. Demetrius]

Google Eagle's View Patterns and find their "Frontiersman Pants" pattern number EV-70. They're easy to follow, multi-sized patterns. If you decide to use these, I suggest you make a tracing of the sizes you'll need, and keep the original pattern uncut. Plain white paper works fine.

Yes, the pattern is out of period for Romans, but the body the trousers/breeches is made to cover hasn't changed except for size. For Celt braccae, I just bought a commercial pattern for medical scrub pants, adjusted it by putting the front and back together to eliminate the outside seam, and extended the upper for a higher waist. By the seventh pair of these I made, I decided to put a fly in the front...I got tired of having to practically undress for nearly every trip to the latrine (too many waist strings, belts, etc. covered the top part. I remember once standing in a row of men at urinals, and saying "I'll be glad when they invent the zipper". They thought I was crazy. So?)

I am not aware of any patterns for Roman cavalry braccae, but I hope this helps. The difficult part in any pants is getting the odd curves and points right. If you're using leather, make sure you leave plenty of room in the seat area for sitting straddle of a horse. You'll probably have to add some material at the center back seam.

[Graham Sumner]

Hello Robert

David Wills is quite correct in saying there is no pattern available for cavalry or infantry Roman bracae, simply because none have ever been found.

As Peroni suggests the Thorsberg trousers are a good starting point and these have been published in a number of sources most of them Danish but usually illustrated with patterns. There are other trousers surviving from Germania and it may be worth your while looking for reports on them too.

Roman military garments were usually in wool so I would presume the bracae would be as well. However some people seem to like the idea of leather bracae especially for cavalrymen but again there is no real evidence to support this. Greek cavalry after all rode with bare legs so it is probably more of a modern way of thinking!

Graham.

[pvblivs cordvs]

Hi Robert,
just a welcome to the forum from me as well.
Cool pic, nice helmet btw :lol:
We really have to catch up again.
I'm leaving for Aalen pretty soon but maybe we can arrange something when I'm back again.
Cheers,
Wim / Cordvs

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

Hi and welcome,Robert.
I have seen the Thjorsberg pattern,too,and it
looks pretty straightforward. My wife says they're
made just like lederhosen with longer legs.
Years ago I made some leather pants using an old
pair of jeans as a pattern. Not period, but the fit
is already there.

[Robert]

Thanks for the welcome and encouragement, Andy. Nice to see you on the tread, Wim, and yeh, I know why the helmet looks familiar, you old rogue. It's out of period, though, being III century and me doing the Limes under Trajan, but it made a nice avatar and it's the only picture of me as a stern looking Roman auxilary. Still using my shield? I've got two blanks finished in linen, waiting on my Deepeeka order to come in for the shieldboss, found some Casien paint close to here in Zutphen of all places. Will have to check the hues.
Reason I'm looking into buckskin is the reconstruction Het Valkhof made recently of a cavalry auxilary. I'll have to pester them for sources (and a pattern). I do suppose wool would work as well, but as we want to be as accurate as possible, I'll research this line till proven or disproven. The Batavian horsemen came from Germanica, perhaps the combination with lederhosen arose there?? Will post any definite findings, till then, please keep the advice coming!

[Peroni]

I certainly found leather better to ride in than wool.

Wool tends to slide around way too much!!

I like to stay well rooted to the saddle, and the leather definately helps!

[M. Demetrius]

I guess there's a reason that the US Cavalry (and others) used to use wool riding breeches with leather inserts where the leg assembly meets the saddle, eh?

[Robert]

Thanks Peroni, for sharing experience, a non-rider myself (first horse I ever climbed onto threw me!) it's all theory, no practice, but your comment makes perfect sense. Buckskin would add to the grip on the saddle. I'll try making a set soon, have an adress for sheeps "buckskin" here in Holland. I would prefer a bovine, I'm pretty sure that's what Roamans and Batavians used, but that is very difficult to come by.

[Peroni]

You could also try getting deer leather/skin.

You can all sorts from here...
http://www.leprevo.co.uk/hides.html

[Graham Sumner]

Robert wrote:

Thanks Peroni, for sharing experience, a non-rider myself (first horse I ever climbed onto threw me!) it's all theory, no practice, but your comment makes perfect sense. Buckskin would add to the grip on the saddle. I'll try making a set soon, have an adress for sheeps "buckskin" here in Holland. I would prefer a bovine, I'm pretty sure that's what Roamans and Batavians used, but that is very difficult to come by.

Hello Robert

You have raised some very interesting points about re-enactment and the value of interpretation. Remember you are supposed to be portraying a 'Roman' soldier who may have grown up riding from a very early age. Therefore they may not have used leather bracae at all. If you do so and perform in public wearing them, the public will get the impression that that is what all Roman soldiers wore. This is something as re-enactors we all criticize Hollywood for doing on many occassions.

The cavalry riders used by 'The Ermine Street Guard' have for over a decade performed wearing wool bracae without any difficulty. Admittedly they have all been experienced horsemen. In contrast I remember reading that many recruits to the US cavalry after the Civil War had never even seen a horse until they joined up!

Graham.