10-20-2006, 06:55 PM
Tobias and Susanna
What was your opinion of the Roman leather armour shown in Roman Military Clothing 3? It was found at Ballana, Nubia originting from Roman Egypt. It is dated between the 4-6th centuries.
Organic materials may well be rare in western Europe but you are forgetting that in places like Egypt there are masses of material dating from early excavations much of which has been scattered in hundreds of collections world wide and is not conveniently la belled as Roman for modern Roman military scholars like ourselves to easily track down.
Exactly the point of my first comment. That was when the idea of leather armour was not so preposterous because the military as well as ordinary civilians were still using it.
Why did the early reconstruction of a Roman soldier in Mainz have armour entirely in leather? Even the (strange to us) leather leggings that figure wears are repeated in a medieval sculpture on display in Turin Museum and on another thread (help me out here Jim!) Dan Howard talked about leather segmented armour that also existed in the medieval period.
I remember showing a picture of a Roman stone thrower to a number of academics years ago, most of whom thought the suggestion daft even though the picture was based on a character from Trajan's Column. Their line of thinking appeared to be 'why should the most sophisticated army of the ancient world resort to throwing stones' and the scene on Trajan's Column was obviously an artistic error and the man should really have been holding a sling!
Well thanks to the guys at Quinta re-enactment group who also looked at the same evidence and saw other scenes such as those on Constantine's arch and carried out controlled experiments that opinion has now changed.
Most academic objections to leather armour appear to me to be based on the suggestion that leather armour, not just leather lorica segmentata, did not exist because it would not be practical rather than because none has ever been found.
I think even modern experiments like those carried out by Ars Dimicandi and others have at least proved that it is possible and practical so we should keep an open mind on this leather armour debate which we will not resolve by simply rejecting it.
P.S Tobias, when you see my new book you might indeed think you have won the lotto! :wink:
Graham.
What was your opinion of the Roman leather armour shown in Roman Military Clothing 3? It was found at Ballana, Nubia originting from Roman Egypt. It is dated between the 4-6th centuries.
Organic materials may well be rare in western Europe but you are forgetting that in places like Egypt there are masses of material dating from early excavations much of which has been scattered in hundreds of collections world wide and is not conveniently la belled as Roman for modern Roman military scholars like ourselves to easily track down.
Quote:Cause the leather worked armour was a theory of the last century (or better the one before the last...)
Exactly the point of my first comment. That was when the idea of leather armour was not so preposterous because the military as well as ordinary civilians were still using it.
Why did the early reconstruction of a Roman soldier in Mainz have armour entirely in leather? Even the (strange to us) leather leggings that figure wears are repeated in a medieval sculpture on display in Turin Museum and on another thread (help me out here Jim!) Dan Howard talked about leather segmented armour that also existed in the medieval period.
I remember showing a picture of a Roman stone thrower to a number of academics years ago, most of whom thought the suggestion daft even though the picture was based on a character from Trajan's Column. Their line of thinking appeared to be 'why should the most sophisticated army of the ancient world resort to throwing stones' and the scene on Trajan's Column was obviously an artistic error and the man should really have been holding a sling!
Well thanks to the guys at Quinta re-enactment group who also looked at the same evidence and saw other scenes such as those on Constantine's arch and carried out controlled experiments that opinion has now changed.
Most academic objections to leather armour appear to me to be based on the suggestion that leather armour, not just leather lorica segmentata, did not exist because it would not be practical rather than because none has ever been found.
I think even modern experiments like those carried out by Ars Dimicandi and others have at least proved that it is possible and practical so we should keep an open mind on this leather armour debate which we will not resolve by simply rejecting it.
P.S Tobias, when you see my new book you might indeed think you have won the lotto! :wink:
Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.
"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.
"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.
"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
