Leather Bag

[Martin Moser]

Hi all,

just finished this bag below. Since talk about bags and containers comes up here repeatedly and this one doesn't seem to have been mentioned here in the forum before, I thought I'd post it FYI.

The bag is constructed after the almost complete find from an Augustean shipwreck on the coast of Italy, near Comacchio, and measures about 30 x 29 x 7 cms. (details can be found in Berti, Fede. Fortuna maris. La nave romana di Comacchio. Bologna, 1990, especially p. 228). Because of the dating and the location of the find, I think it should be acceptable for civilian or military off-duty use (at least) in the 1st cent. BC and AD.

I chose veg-tanned sheeps leather for the bag as the original is reported to have a leather thickness of 1mm only. The teardrop-shaped applications were dyed with a vinegar/iron dust mixture, then treated with neatsfoot oil. While this may or may not actually have been used by the Romans to produce black leather, it would have certainly been in their range of possibilities and since I do not know of ancient leather color-dyeing methods I tried that one.







If anyone's interested, I will make this bag to order, or, if you want to try it out on your own and need any advice, don't hesitate to ask!

[Carlton Bach]

Very impressive.

Thnks for the pointer, BTW. I've been looking for Roman bags for quite a while now.

[GALLA PLACIDIA]

Bravo Martin!!!!! great job!!! SPECTACULARRRRRRRRR!!!

[Matt Lukes]

Very nifty Martin as usual :wink:

[Mark Headlee]

Sir,

I sent you a private message about the bag...

Thanks,

[QFirmus]

I could not see the photo and wondered if you could PM it to me. It sounds great as I have only heard of two otehr bags as you mentioned..not a lot of evidence.

Thanks

[Martin Moser]

I could not see the photo and wondered if you could PM it to me.

PM just sent :-) )

[M. Demetrius]

I can't really tell from the picture, does the bag have a gusset, or is it just flat? Sure looks nice. I'll bet there were many sorts and styles, but we only find a couple, right?

That size is pretty standard, for a personal bag, from Roman days up to modern. About the size for carrying a lappus toppus.

[Martin Moser]

I can't really tell from the picture, does the bag have a gusset, or is it just flat?

No, not just flat, as I said above it is 30 x 29 x 7cm (cuboidal, if that's the right word?), the 7cm being the width of the 2 long, narrow leather strips shown to the left and right of the bag in the drawing. Those 2 strips form the side walls of the bag. Hope that clears it up?

I'll bet there were many sorts and styles, but we only find a couple, right?

Yes, I think so, too. As with any organic material, leather finds are always kind of rare, unfortunately.

[James B.]

Martin

How is the strap attached to the bag? Are the two ends simply sewn onto the sides of the bag?

Thanks
James

[M. Demetrius]

Well, now that the illustration comes through on the screen, I can see my previous question was unnecessary, but thanks for the explanation.

Very nice stitch work. Do you punch the holes or sew with an industrial machine? I use a modified leather punch. We filed the prongs down so there is more space between them, and the holes are much smaller than they originally intended. It helps a lot to have the holes already in the leather when you come through with the needle.

It appears that the gussets turn back on themselves at the top (good reinforcement), and the end of the strap is concealed between them. The one on the right appears to have a hole, perhaps for a rivet? How did you attach your strap?

[Matthew Amt]

So, lemme get this straight: The original bag was published SIXTEEN YEARS AGO (and probably excavated 10 years before that!), and not ONE English-language publication has seen fit to mention it? Sigh...

Not your fault, Martin! Beautiful work, and I thank you greatly for the information and pictures.

Valete,

Matthew

[Martin Moser]

Hi James,

How is the strap attached to the bag? Are the two ends simply sewn onto the sides of the bag?

Yes, in my case I did it like that. In fact the upper ends of the side panels of the bag are folded back inwards. There is a slit, approx. 2cm wide to take up the strap ends. The area around the slits seems to show stitching marks. Picture and description are not absolutely clear, unfortunately, it may be that it was a strap of double leather, somehow fastened on the inside with a knot and or ring. As I could not ascertain this for sure I went with a somewhat simplified fastening for my first version.

Here's the detail from my bag:





and here's a drawing of a strap from another, much more simpler bag from the same ship, showing the possible alternative IMHO:

[Martin Moser]

Very nice stitch work. Do you punch the holes or sew with an industrial machine? I use a modified leather punch. We filed the prongs down so there is more space between them, and the holes are much smaller than they originally intended. It helps a lot to have the holes already in the leather when you come through with the needle.

The bag is of curse completely handsewn. For the holes I simply use the same awl I use for making shoes:



(the grip is modelled after the turned wooden grip found on a Roman chisel here in Germany)

It helps a lot to have the holes already in the leather when you come through with the needle.

I'd even say NEVER sew leather (except very thin one) with a needle directly, always use an awl. Do NOT punch out the holes, just pierce the leather, it will then close again nicely around the thread. I found that I don't even need a needle or anything after preparing the holes with the awl. Just simply thin out the yarn and wax/pitch well to form a nice longish and stiff tip. The yarn is then hard/stiff enough to simply push through. (I hope the description is clear like this?)

It appears that the gussets turn back on themselves at the top (good reinforcement), and the end of the strap is concealed between them. The one on the right appears to have a hole, perhaps for a rivet? How did you attach your strap?

Please see my post above for that ...

[Martin Moser]

So, lemme get this straight: The original bag was published SIXTEEN YEARS AGO (and probably excavated 10 years before that!), and not ONE English-language publication has seen fit to mention it? Sigh...

Yes, and oddly enough it seems to be little known in Europe as well. It also contains a number of other interesting and very unique objects, 2 more simple bags, a number of lead miniature temples, a wooden mortar, nice little wooden boxes with sliding lid and simple lock mechanism, some caligae style shoes (did I ever mention that caligae straps are really quite narrow?) ...

The book seems hard to come by somehow, fortunately the Bavarian State Library bought it for me to peruse ;-) )

Not your fault, Martin!

I certainly hope not! :-) )

Beautiful work, and I thank you greatly for the information and pictures.

Thanks. I'll put up some more pics of the finds as I get around to over the next few days