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Has anyone heard anything about these other than the scanty information which was widely released in 2004: that several dozen(!) wrecks have been found under a few meters of water near the original one Honor Frost excavated at Marsala, that an underwater museum will be constructed there, and that these had been known of for some time before their official announcement? I understand that there are political difficulties with underwater archaeology off Sicily (and archaeology in Italy in general). Apparently the discoverers are keeping things close to their chests again. Dr. John Oleson, the maritime archaeologist at the University of Victoria, and several other scholars hadn't heard anything last time I asked. Perhaps some forum-dweller has better contacts or reads the right journals?
Here is a link to a copy of the Times article, if this is new to anyone: about the second thing I read on the subject after bumping into it in a British history magazine. Lets hope these get preserved better than the first one, and that this sheds some light on the oaring arrangements of larger warships! (With so many wrecks, I hope that there may be a few where some fragment of the upperwork hasn't been eatern by worms).
Edit: Can somebody move this to Rome or Allies and Enemies? I forgot to switch subforums. At least Hellenistic warships are Greek in origin.
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Hi Sean,
I've chosen 'Roman' in spite of all wrecks being possibly Carthaginian... :wink:
Aitor
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Thanks for that link, Ildar... I'm posting it here, since pages sometimes disappear...
Quote:Ritrovato il rostro della "Battaglia delle Egadi"
Grazie ad un'azione investigativa effettuata a Trapani con il coordinamento della Procura della Repubblica presso il Tribunale di Roma (Sost.Proc. Paolo Giorgio Ferri) ed eseguita il 15 giugno del 2004 dal Comando Carabinieri Tutela Patrimonio Culturale - Sezione Archeologia - di Roma, coadiuvato dal Nucleo Tutela Patrimonio Culturale di Palermo, sono stati recuperati importantissimi reperti archeologici di provenienza marina tra cui spicca un rostro in bronzo, 19 anfore intere e frammentarie di fattura greca, romana e punica e tre ceppi d'ancora romani in piombo, consegnati in custodia giudiziale alla Soprintendenza per i BB.CC. di Trapani, nella persona di Sebastiano Tusa, direttore del servizio per i Beni Archeologici.
Quest' operazione corona gli sforzi di tanti anni di ricerche, studi ed investimenti operati nel campo della tutela archeologica subacquea, intrapresi con lungimiranza dall'assessorato per i BB.CC. della Regione Siciliana.
Le caratteristiche del rostro: "Si tratta di un oggetto assolutamente unico nel suo genere, tant'è che nel Mediterraneo se ne conosce soltanto un altro rinvenuto nei pressi di Atlit, in Israele. Il rostro è formato da un pezzo unitariamente fuso in bronzo che si andava ad inserire nel punto di congiunzione tra la parte finale prodiera della chiglia e la parte più bassa del dritto di prua. Esso era inoltre agganciato alla parte lignea dello scafo, mediante numerosi chiodi di cui si trova ancora traccia sul suo bordo: se tutta la struttura del rostro era laminare e costituiva una sorta di fodera alle parti lignee suddette dello scafo, diversa era la porzione antistante per la sua possanza e robustezza. La parte anteriore del rostro è, infatti, costituita da un possente fendente verticale rafforzato da ben tre fendenti laminari orizzontali. Questa era lo strumento micidiale che veniva inserito con forza sulle fiancate delle navi nemiche per determinarne il rapido affondamento grazie alle falle che generava.", spiega Sebastiano Tusa.
Per le sue caratteristiche tipologiche e tecniche il rostro si data nell'ambito del III terzo secolo a.C. e, pertanto, anche sulla base del suo luogo di rinvenimento, è evidente che appartenga ad un nave romana che combattè vittoriosamente contro la flotta cartaginese nel 241 a.C. (Prima Guerra Punica, Battaglia delle Egadi).
Alla conferenza stampa, tenutasi a Trapani il 30 giugno u.s., hanno partecipato l'assessore dei BB.CC. Fabio Granata, l'archeologo Sebastiano Tusa, il soprintendente di Trapani Giuseppe Gini ed il comandante generale del Nucleo Tutela del patrimonio culturale dell'Arma dei Carabinieri, generale Zottin.
my rough translation:
"Thanks to an investigative action conducted at Trapani with the coordination of the Procura of the Republic near the Tribunal of Rome, and completed June 15, 2004 by the Carabinieri Command for the Cultural Heritage Protection, Archaeological Section, of Rome, helped by the Cultural Heritage Protection Group of Palermo, there were recovered most important archaeological remains from the ocean, among which stand out a bronze ram, 19 whole and fragmentary amphoras of Greek, Roman and Punic manufacture, and three Roman lead anchor-stocks, given to the legal custody of the Soprintendenza per i Beni Culturali of Trapani, in the person of Sebastiano Tusa, director of the service for Cultural Goods.
This operation crowns the efforts of so many years of research, study and investments in the field of underwater archaeology conservation, undertaken through the foresight of the assessorate for Cultural Goods of Sicily.
The characteristics of the ram: "We're talking about an object absolutely unique in its class, such that in the Mediterranean there is known only one other, from near Athlit, Israel. The ram is formed from a single piece of bronze that goes to the insertion in the point of conjunction between the projecting end of the keel and the lowest part of the prow stem. This was also linked to the wooden part of the hull, by means of numerous nails, traces of which were found on the edge: if the whole structure of the ram was laminated and constituted a sort of cover to the aforementioned wooden parts of the hull, it differed from the opposite portion in its strength and robustness. The forward part of the ram is, in fact, constituted from a strong vertical cleaver reinforced by three horizontal teeth. The was the deadly instrument that was inserted with force on the flanks of the enemy ships to bring about rapid sinking thanks to the holes that it made," said Sebastiano Tusa.
Because of its typological and technical characateristics the ram is dated to about the 3rd century BC and, consequently, on the basis of its findspot as well, it is evident that it comes from a Roman ship that fought in the victory against the Carthaginian fleet in 241 BC (First Punic War, Battle of the Aegades).
At the press conference, held at Trapani on June 30 of last year, participants included the Assessore dei Beni Culturali Fabio Granata, the archaeologist Sebastiano Tusa, the superintendent of Trapani Giuseppe Gini, and the comandante generale of the Cultural Heritage Protection Group of the Carabinieri, General Zottin."
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Ave Dan,
many thanks - another Montefortino I didn't know before! 
Laudes to you!
Greetings from germania incognita
Heiko (Cornelius Quintus)
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
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A new ram!!  hock:
Laudes for Ildar and Dan!
Aitor
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Earlier discovered rams (Athlit, Bremerhaven, Fitzwilliam, Turin, Canellopoulos): Matthew Garnett Pridemore. The Form, Function, and Interrelationships of Naval Rams: a Study of Naval Rams from Antiquity (MA dissertation, Texas A&M University, 1996).
And other one from Pireus archaeological musem:
![[Image: pireus_ram.jpg]](http://www.xlegio.ru/ildar/pireus_ram.jpg)
Image from Γιώργος Σταϊνχάουερ. Τα μνημεια και το αρχαιολογικο μουσειο του Πειραια. Αθήνα, 1998, π. 1.
P.S. Aitor, I have some further information for you. 
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Many thanks, Ildar, another laus for you!
Just e-mail or PM me... :wink:
Aitor
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does the size of these rams indicate that these ships were quite small ???
![[Image: rostro_carab.gif]](http://www.regione.sicilia.it/beniculturali/archeologiasottomarina/immagini/foto/rostro_carab.gif)
![[Image: rostro.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/IMPERIALCOMMAND/rostro.jpg)
sorry for my terrible pic it was made quickly.........
M.VIB.M. :wink:
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Katte Kabuto no O wo shimeyo!
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Yeah. The Athlit ram is (iirc) a 650 kg beast.
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![[Image: athlit01wmm.jpg]](http://www.vizin.org/projects/athlit/images/athlit01wmm.jpg)
![[Image: athlit02wmm.jpg]](http://www.vizin.org/projects/athlit/images/athlit02wmm.jpg)
WOW!!! what a thing!
btw nice 3D work he has been doing on the Activm monument!
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Alas, the only Italian I know is Latin, so I can't read the Italian articles on the subject. I'll have a look at that article on rams.
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Quote:does the size of these rams indicate that these ships were quite small ???
It seems to me it's a big mistake to correlate the size of the whole ship with its ram size. We have sufficient quantity of coin's and gravestone's images with a small ram-head attached to a large warship. Impact is struck with all the mass of a ship, and the ram-head serves only for penetration through the shel, you see. Even the largest ram's weight is insignificant in comparison with displacement of the whole warship.
Quote:Just e-mail or PM me...
I have emailed you.
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E-mail received, Ildar. You should take more measurements yet. I'll try to answer if I manage to survive so many familiar meals these days... :roll:
Happy New Year!
Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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