Hole or holes in the Pilos?

[geala]

Hello,

many Pilos helmets have small holes near the base presumably to fasten a chin strap. I only have fotos where one hole is visible.

The simple question is: was there only one hole (then, how is the chin strap secured to the helmet??) or were there two holes (easy task to secure two straps and bind them beneath the chin). Or do examples exist with one hole and with two holes?

Thank you

[hoplite14gr]

The example in the National Archeology Museum in Athens has 2 holes.
Kind regards

[geala]

Thank you, Stefanos.

Perhaps to avoid opening a new thread:

Is the pilos totally round at its lower edge or slightly oval? Heads normally are longer than wide so a oval form would make more sense, but...

Unfortunately I don't have a real example of a pilos helmet nearby and I can not verify it from my fotos. I need the data for a reconstruction.

kr

[hoplite14gr]

No clear position here. Both round and oval specimens exist.
Stabilisation was possible by padding or arming cup I guess.
Kind regards

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

I was watching a documentary about Ugoslavia some time ago and in a scene of a modern road with shops I saw a Muslim seller of some felt white cap,exactly the same as the felt pilos!They had exactly the same shape only without the rim.However it is eas to create that rim and secondly,I've seen pilos without that rim in Secunda's The Greek Hoplite,in the painting with the marines.Also,it's in fashion now some women's felt caps that are also exactly the same with the ancient round pilos(for illustrations look also in "The Greek Hoplite).It only needs to take out the decorations that it usually has.I'm thinkin of buying one.Then I'll have to add two leather straps.
Most pilos caps I've seen have indeed one hole.The strap could have been secured if it was tied on the outer part so it couldn't pass through the hole ot it could have a rivet to secure it in the hole.But as long as there have been found helmets with two holes you can go for it
khaire
Giannis

[geala]

That's good news. I will try to get an oval pilos helmet with two holes.

Below is my pilos cap made from uncoloured felt (and me looking a bit stupid as normally). The peak of the cap may be to high for my taste (the picture is also distorted a little bit) but I think it's acceptable yet.

[hoplite14gr]

Nice one Wolfgang.
Kind regards

[Peter Raftos]

Some pilos helmets can be found here:

http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion ... at49_A.txt

http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion ... at49_A.txt

http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion ... at49_A.txt

[geala]

@ Giannis: a picture where you can see the pilos cap worn "on duty" to estimate the dimensions. It is a very comfortable piece btw even if looking a bit, ähm, funny. 8)

(I was on patrol before in the cold morning hence the sandal boots with leather socks, normally I go barefoot. The chlamys not dyed with plants colour is only provisional and pelte and spear are not mine but belong to a comrade ).

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Thanks!I have seen all these pics from your site!Excellent,very accurate!My question is how did you form the felt of the pilos that way?Did you put glue,is it a single piece of cloth?

[hoplite14gr]

Wolfgang if you follow the "Greek footware" thread you will see that with the possible exception of the Marines troops were not barefoot on campaign.
Kind regards

[geala]

@ Giannis:
I sent you a pm. Did you receive it? I had some strange reaction from the site when I sent it. The pilos is one piece of felt, glue or something like this I can not diagnose (did not make it myself).

@ Stefanos:
The Greek footware thread was indeed the first thread I studied on RAT in excessive.
To me there was not a clear result in the thread. I am of the opinion that some warriors went barefoot, others not, depending on personal taste and usage and the situation.
There are too many sources with shoeless and shoed warriors over the times to put it in one place with "heroic nudity" and walking and fighting barefoot is sometimes too advantageous to dismiss it completely.

I don't think Kyros ex-mercenaries were barefoot on their entire march (just reading Anab. 4.5.14 fe) and I don't think Alexanders troops did not wear shoes marching to India and back. But I know modern guys who hike barefoot hundreds of km with a 30kg backpack so I'm not very convinced with arguments that going barefoot was not possible at all.


Edit: örks, just read your pm, Giannis. Strange. Then here: fact is, I don't know how the pilos and especially the rim is made. There is no stitching and no glue and the material is the same overall. It must be a kind of pressing, perhaps with steam? I can ask the hatter (but perhaps it is a secret, who knows? :wink: ). He is from the medieval scene and it was his first Greek cap so I presume no special technique was used other than normal hatter technique.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

OK,thanks a lot Wolfgang!If you actually learn how it was made for sure,tell me.
Khaire
Giannis