Sea sponge helmet linings

[Tarbicus]

Daniele, so that would probably be Mediterranean sponge?

[TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS]

I think yes, in the sixties we did not use to import from China what we have just around ...

Vale,

[M. Demetrius]

On the topic of sponges, for the one on a stick, does anybody have a suggestion as to type of sponge? and mode of fastening to the stick?

[ambrosius]

I've split the cat ... :roll:

Good idea. Easier to fit the critter inside your helmet that way. :lol:

Ambrosius/Mike

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well, I'm not sure I agree with that method at all, folks.
If it's alive, those little hooky things on the ends of its legs help it attach to your head more securely!


:lol: :lol: :lol:

[pvblivs cordvs]

After another field test I can add that using a living cat is not a good idea.
Cat is best used outside of the helmet
I'm off to the doctor now.
Wim/Cordvs

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
I take it you didn't draw your cat from the legionary cattery...... hock: they are specially trained!

[ambrosius]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
I take it you didn't draw your cat from the legionary cattery...... hock: they are specially trained!

Must be one of the 'Felix' legions Maximus had in 'Gladiator'... 8)

Ambrosius/Mike

[Robert Vermaat]

After another field test I can add that using a living cat is not a good idea.
Cat is best used outside of the helmet
I'm off to the doctor now.
Wim/Cordvs

Having seen your cat, I advise you to keep the shower door closed from now on. Brute! :wink:

[pvblivs cordvs]

Sound advice.
Roman to Jew in one fast paw-strike.
But isn't that Brutus instead of brute ? D
Wim/Cordvs

[Robert Vermaat]

Roman to Jew in one fast paw-strike.

Ouch!

But isn't that Brutus instead of brute ?

As you wish. :twisted: [/quote]

[Gaius Colletti]

Aren't most sponges kind of scratchy? Wouldn't that be uncomfortable under your helmet, or nose guard? What about cheek pieces?

Interesting I caught this, my old Gallic G helmet came with a helmet liner made of foam pieces, which were then sewn into a liner case. Not that I have a lot of experience with helmet liners in general, foam creates an exceptional liner to any of the previous helmets I have used made out of old shirts and what have you.

I'm sure if "scratchy" foam was used, it could be concealed with a layer of soft linen

[mgwashburn]

I am so sorry to revive this thread, but I am a sea sponge merchant from Tarpon Springs and proudly have been importing and selling more than 20 varieties of sea sponge from around the world.

And may have some insight to share regarding the Romans use of sea sponges as a general use tool as well as for linings in their helmets.

There are a handful of species that are endemic to the Mediterranean sea that we import on a regular basis and they include:

1. Mediterranean Wool Sponge
2. Honeycomb Sponge (very similar in size and shape to softness to the above)
3. Mediterranean Silk Sponge (This species comes in many different grades and is also known as a zimocca or la fina sponges)
4. Mediterranean Elephant Ear Sponge.

The Medi silk is a somewhat small sponge, very dense & fine...today used primarily for application or removal of cosmetics & makeup..and also feminine hygiene (please don't ask me about this)...when dry, this sponge is very dense and too small (maybe 4-5" tops) and not really a good candidate for a lining of armor or a helmet.

The Medi elephant ear sponge is primarily harvested off the coast of Italy, but is found only in water depths of 100 feet or more. This makes it unlikely that it would have been harvested in quantities sufficient enough to be distributed to Roman soldiers. Someone else in this thread mentioned the elephant ear sponge, but they probably found the south pacific elephant ear sponge which is now abundant from the Philippines which would not have been available back then. It also is very flat and dense and would not have been very comfortable unless wet.

Lastly, the Mediterranean wool is a very flat & round pancake like sea sponge. It is the softest to the touch of the above and generally is around 6-8 inches in diameter and about 2-3 inches deep....it is very pliable and with the weight of a metal helm on your skull would probably have brought the thickness down to 1-2 inches of padding wet or dry.

I believe I would definitely have picked the Medi wool sponge if i had my choice.

also, the honeycomb is not that bad, but much thicker depth, so it would have had to be cut down a bit in order to fit into a helmet vs a medi wool which with a little bit of trimming would have fit perfectly.

if you have questions about sea sponges of the world, let me known, I have handled almost all commercial varieties available over the last 20+ years.

Interested in trying one out? We don't import a lot of the medi wools, but I believe we have about 20-50 on hand in our warehouse somewhere, also have plenty of the medi silk sponges. We had some Italian elephant ear sponges somewhere that I may be able to dig up as well, but probably only a very small quantity maybe 5-10 pieces as they are no longer available due to the limited supply and lazy divers. PM me as we don't sell these on our website, they are specialty items we only sell in very small quantities by direct inquiry.

marc w.
[email protected]
www.naturalbathbody.com

[Dan Howard]

Hi Marc, thanks for the insight. I had a question: if Aristotle describes them as being remarkable for "thinness, density, and firmness", wouldn't the elephant ear sponge be a closer match to this description? Perhaps the Romans had access to a related sponge that inhabited shallower waters; we don't have it today because it had been harvested to extinction so only the deeper water variant remains.

I didn't know anything about this subject so I went looking for photos. Here is one I found of the Mediterranean elephant ear sponge.

[mgwashburn]

Those definitely look like Philippine Elephant Ear sponges (whole uncut)  here is our very sad image from our retail website.



I will head over to our sea sponge processing plant in a little bit (its in an industrial zoned area due to the barrels of muriatic acid and peroxide we handle there), and I will grab a few of these and create some new photos.

I knew somewhere in a box in our warehouse there are a few remnants of the Mediterranean elephant ear sponges and I will see if I can dig them up as well.

Here is a photo a real Mediterranean elephant ear sponge cut into little pieces for pottery work (not our photo)



You can also look up photos of live Medi Silk sponges by Googling the scientific name which is Spongia agaricina, you will see that the shape of them is rarely shaped like a large cone, usually they grow into strange shapes, the last one I has was shaped like a giant cows tongue.

and here is the south pacific variety which is cut from the whole sponge as pictured above:



The Medi variety is much thicker and pliable...if you were to bend the south pacific variety, while dry, it could break which the Medi one would not.

also the south pacific is very scratchy to the touch, the medi e.e. is more akin to the medi silk sponge to the touch soft not rough.
marc