Leather Cuirass Lorica Musculata, I used to think no way but

[Matt Lukes]

Actually I was meaning that this is all getting a bit much- 9 pages of debate and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere- those who like the idea still like it, and those who don't, don't :lol: And it's not the only long-winded debate of the subject that hasn't resulted in anything- hence the reference to the TVNICA color debate :wink:

Me? I don't think much of the idea of a leather musculata since there's simply no physical evidence for it and sculptural depictions of anything are notoriously dodgy to take alone- without anything to back them up it's impossible to take them particularly seriously when logically the idea is contrary to what we do know and what makes the most sense.

-There were metal musculatae (virtually known examples are Greek, yes, but there's absolutely no reason the Romans couldn't have made them as well- they certainly liked them enough)
- leather isn't good armor- not compared to metal
- even when it's nearing an armor-like state, it's rigid (so the flex and cinching mentioned don't follow)
- those who are supposedly depicted wearing it had enough money to have proper armor and reason to want something that's actually protective (it'd be dumb to be wealthy and die because some Gaul got to you and your leather 'armor' wouldn't save you)
- sculpture often doesn't reflect reality, just look at EVERY depiction of the Lorica segmentata- not one shows it as what we KNOW it looks like. Flex and cinching can be rather more easily be explained to be the result of the artist being too skilled- putting in subtleties that didn't exist in reality but made sense in his mind.
- 'parade armor' isn't a defensible idea since even what we know is true parade armor from much later in history is still fully-functional, it's just way too ornate and expensive to ever use in battle

So sorry proponents, until someone pulls a leather musculata out of a bog, or finds some clear contemporary literary mention of it ever existing, I just don't see enough reason to believe they existed. The absolute best I can see being thought is that it's not strictly impossible- but that's not saying much and it's hardly saying it's likley...