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So, I've always seen/read depictions of the Macedonian style pikemen as being fairly lightly armored, linen cuirasses and whatnot, but then there's that quote (I think in Livy, though I just don't have the heart to dig for it right now), where the Roman commander tells his men it will be easier to beat the (Macedonians, I believe, in one of the Macedonian Wars) in battle than to strip them of their armor afterward, which suggests to me very heavily armed troops. Could anybody shed some light on this? Whats the difference between the arms of the pikemen in the 340s/350s vs the late Hellenistic era?
Marshal White
aka Aulus FABULOUS 8) <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" />8) . . . err, I mean Fabius
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The answer is that we really don't know one way or the other, and the most likely reality was that troops wore whatever they could. It seems that sometimes phalangites could wear metal muscled cuirasses, but later in the Hellenistic period it appears that they wore no armour at all other than a helmet. Note that this applies only to the rank-and-file, while the officers always would have worn armour.
Duncan Head made a noble effort in an article he wrote called "The Myth of the Heavy Phalangite" to disprove the theory that phalangites were heavily armoured, but he unfortunately omitted a large amount of iconographic evidence which points to a more ambiguous picture. Generally, it seems that until the later 3rd century BC, the linothorax and the metal muscled cuirass were worn by phalangites, while after that date, armour was mostly dropped all together. In the Amphipolis decree, a cuirass is not required for the rank-and-file, and the two images that I have found that actually show phalangites fighting in the phalanx show soldiers wearing only a tunic and a helmet.
Ruben
He had with him the selfsame rifle you see with him now, all mounted in german silver and the name that he\'d give it set with silver wire under the checkpiece in latin: Et In Arcadia Ego. Common enough for a man to name his gun. His is the first and only ever I seen with an inscription from the classics. - Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
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Well, also a lot depends on the finances and administrational ability of the Hellenistic rullers.
Philip managed to reorganize and reequip the army after the capture of Panggaeon gold mines.
Chances are tha elite units like Hypaspists or Argyraspides were better equiped. Ptolemaics and Seleukidics had the resources to spend at least on certain formations.
That means also that attrition and financial ruin from the endless civil wars would have an effect.
Plus, a general's encouraging words before a battle....hmmmm
Kind regards
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Quote:Well, also a lot depends on the finances and administrational ability of the Hellenistic rullers.
Philip managed to reorganize and reequip the army after the capture of Panggaeon gold mines.
Chances are tha elite units like Hypaspists or Argyraspides were better equiped. Ptolemaics and Seleukidics had the resources to spend at least on certain formations.
That means also that attrition and financial ruin from the endless civil wars would have an effect.
Plus, a general's encouraging words before a battle....hmmmm
Kind regards
Yes, and we also have to take into account that men in different parts of the phalanx may have been armoured differently. The first few rows may have been heavily armoured, while the middle less so.
Ruben
He had with him the selfsame rifle you see with him now, all mounted in german silver and the name that he\'d give it set with silver wire under the checkpiece in latin: Et In Arcadia Ego. Common enough for a man to name his gun. His is the first and only ever I seen with an inscription from the classics. - Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
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According to the Discovery Channel's "Ancient Warriors - The Macedonians" documentary, Phillip equiped only the front rank and the last rank of his phalanxes with heavy breastplates, while the other ranks were equipped with very light armor, or no armor (though I suppose they probably just used whatever they could get their hands on).
I don't know how reliable that information is though.
[size=75:18gu2k6n]- Roy Aarts[/size]
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Linothorax (linen armnor) was very effective.
And producers of History Channel have budget limits.
Use what you see in TV as an incentice of seeking knowledege.
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Quote:According to the Discovery Channel's "Ancient Warriors - The Macedonians" documentary, Phillip equiped only the front rank and the last rank of his phalanxes with heavy breastplates, while the other ranks were equipped with very light armor, or no armor (though I suppose they probably just used whatever they could get their hands on).
I don't know how reliable that information is though.
That's pure speculation. We barely even know what sort of armour Alexander's phalangites wore, let alone Phillip's.
Ruben
He had with him the selfsame rifle you see with him now, all mounted in german silver and the name that he\'d give it set with silver wire under the checkpiece in latin: Et In Arcadia Ego. Common enough for a man to name his gun. His is the first and only ever I seen with an inscription from the classics. - Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
