Armour from an Attic red-figure vase

[Sean Manning]

Vase 204329 of the Corpus Vasorum Antiquorum (available online here) has several interesting features. In particular, some of the armour is quite interesting in appearance. The best image to accompany the following is one of the black and white ones, zoomed in to Level 6 (I won’t provide a direct link as I’m not certain users have that right, although one can download images for personal use). To find it, just search the CVA by vase number.

The leftmost easterner (a term which seems safer than guessing whether the painter meant a Scythian, Mede, Persian in Median dress, or just a generic barbaros to be beaten by heroic Greeks) has some odd triangular design below the waist of his armour. The armour has a Greek cut, with rounded scales on the sides and shoulder flaps. However, the front appears to be covered with uneven rhombuses, alternating dark and light.

Two figures to the right, a Greek hoplite has a similar pattern on the sides and shouler flaps of his cuirass.

The rightmost easterner has some sort of cuirass. The surface is smooth and covered with rhombuses, in even rows. Each is light, and has a dot in the very center. Dangling below the armour are a fringe of very narrow peterges with tasseled ends.

What could the different patterns of rhombs mean? Could the light-and-dark armour be scaled, and the all-light armour quilted? What could the dots in the center of the light-rhombed armour represent? And what about the odd fringe on the leftmost easterner’s armour?

(I originally looked this up for my Achaemenid research, but am posting it here since it seems more Greek than Roman or other).

[Zenodoros]

Yeah, I'm having difficulty using that engine right now. Can you post a picture? Sounds interesting.

[D B Campbell]

Yeah, I'm having difficulty using that engine right now.

You must register to use the Beazley Archive database.
Go here and register. Then go here and type in vase number 204329.

[Sean Manning]

You can use it without registering, but you have to wrestle with the system.

Go to here => Browse or Search => Advanced Search. Enter the vase number, and remove the note under "reference" (you have to scroll down to see it). Click Browse.

The only archaeological remnants of Persian body armour from this period consist of loose scales (some in small clumps) so I am interested in other sources to understand what it might have looked like. Imperial art doesn't show armoured figures. Montvert's Persians book is almost impossible to get ahold of, alas.

[MeinPanzer]

You can use it without registering, but you have to wrestle with the system.

Go to here => Browse or Search => Advanced Search. Enter the vase number, and remove the note under "reference" (you have to scroll down to see it). Click Browse.

The only archaeological remnants of Persian body armour from this period consist of loose scales (some in small clumps) so I am interested in other sources to understand what it might have looked like. Imperial art doesn't show armoured figures. Montvert's Persians book is almost impossible to get ahold of, alas.

I bought an extra copy about a year ago for 90 USD and sold it this past winter for 240 USD! It is pretty scarce, but if you diligently watch Abebooks you should be able to find a copy eventually (took me about a year of searching).

Any way, I think that the sparabara definitely seems to be wearing some sort of quilted armour. The lack of pteruges makes me think this is even more likely.

[Sean Manning]

I bought an extra copy about a year ago for 90 USD and sold it this past winter for 240 USD! It is pretty scarce, but if you diligently watch Abebooks you should be able to find a copy eventually (took me about a year of searching).

Any way, I think that the sparabara definitely seems to be wearing some sort of quilted armour. The lack of pteruges makes me think this is even more likely.

You actually own a copy (since you bought and sold an "extra" one)? Lucky. I've checked a few times on AbeBooks, with no luck. Could I have a full citation please? I seem to have lost mine.

Comerus, thanks for the image. Very interesting.

[MeinPanzer]

I bought an extra copy about a year ago for 90 USD and sold it this past winter for 240 USD! It is pretty scarce, but if you diligently watch Abebooks you should be able to find a copy eventually (took me about a year of searching).

Any way, I think that the sparabara definitely seems to be wearing some sort of quilted armour. The lack of pteruges makes me think this is even more likely.

You actually own a copy (since you bought and sold an "extra" one)? Lucky. I've checked a few times on AbeBooks, with no luck. Could I have a full citation please? I seem to have lost mine.

Comerus, thanks for the image. Very interesting.

Yes, I secured a copy a long time ago for a very cheap price by chance. Diligence will reward you when it comes to tracking down the rarer Montvert titles (which is almost all of them, these days, but especially the Sekunda Hellenistic titles and Mr. Head's book). In my two-year-long search, I've seen 3 copies of "The Achaemenid Persian Army" turn up, two of which I've bought. I've also seen three copies of "The Seleucid Army" pop up and two copies of "The Ptolemaic Army;" the last few of those two easily sold for $200 (USD) and higher. Inflation seems to have taken hold of the Montvert market, unfortunately, and titles which went for $150 at most when I began my search now regularly go for $200.

Your best bet is to take advantage of the automatic update feature on Abebooks while checking eBay periodically. Abebooks has more Montvert titles overall, but the rarest ones appear most often on eBay.

Here's a citation for it:

Head, Duncan. The Achaemenid Persian Army. Montvert Publications, Stockport: 1992.

[Nectanebo]

Sorry to go off topic, but I bought Montvert's Seleucid and Ptolemeic books from Foyle's Bookshop in London in 1998! It's a bit of shock to see how rare they are now.

[MeinPanzer]

Sorry to go off topic, but I bought Montvert's Seleucid and Ptolemeic books from Foyle's Bookshop in London in 1998! It's a bit of shock to see how rare they are now.

Well, I think they only did one print run, which would mean that by '96 the books were already OOP. Unlike the situation in the early '90s, nowadays thanks to the global accessibility of eBay and Abebooks and the like, nearly the entire worldwide community, as small as it may be, can search for and bid on the same books. It's a shame because if Montvert had continued printing into the early '00s, it probably could have survived thanks to the boom in popularity of buying books online.

[sitalkes]

I was contacted by Montevert in 2000 and assured that none of their books were out of print. If you want one, try writing to them direct - probably somebody on the AncMed list can tell you the address.

[Sean Manning]

I was contacted by Montevert in 2000 and assured that none of their books were out of print. If you want one, try writing to them direct - probably somebody on the AncMed list can tell you the address.

Thanks! What AncMed list?

[Dan Diffendale]

What AncMed list?

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancmed/

[MeinPanzer]

I was contacted by Montevert in 2000 and assured that none of their books were out of print. If you want one, try writing to them direct - probably somebody on the AncMed list can tell you the address.

I have written them before, but I never recieved a response. I'm fairly sure that Phil Greenough, the man behind Montvert, has since closed shop and moved onto other things.

[Duncan Head]

The rightmost easterner has some sort of cuirass. The surface is smooth and covered with rhombuses, in even rows. Each is light, and has a dot in the very center.

I missed the dots at the centre of the rhomboi when preparing the Montvert illustration, hence the interpretation as a simple quilted cuirass. A more recent interpretation can be seen in one of the colour plates of Nick Sekunda's Osprey Campaign series Marathon; he sees the dots as rivets securing plates in "brigandine" style. If you're interested in the Brygos Cup armour, Sekunda's discussion is worth reading.

[sitalkes]

I assumed that it was pretty much impossible to contact Montevert, and the books were out of print, so did not ask permission to put some pictures from Montvert books on my web site (although I did give the full attribution)- turned out if you type "montevert" into a search engine at that time my web site came out on the top of the list. Some people even said they didn't know about Montevert untill they saw the pictures on my web site, and they then went and bought the books. Phil threatened me with legal action if I did not remove the pictures. So that's why the site now doesn't mention Montevert at all and you don't see my web site any more. So even though that was six or seven years ago, be careful what you do with those Montevert pictures, and they were adamant that the books are not out print.

AncMed is the Ancient - Medieval group on Yahoo! Groups, setup by Society of Ancients members. That's where you will find people like Duncan Head.