Mainz Gallic G eyebrows all wrong??

[Peroni]

Looking closely at the photos of the Mainz Gallic G, I noticed that the eyebrows have three distinct ridges. Robinson shows only two ridges in his book and on his reconstruction. HRR is what most reenactors and armourers have based their reconstructions on for many years. The photographs of the original Mainz helmet in HRR are poorly detailed to say the least, but here's the drawing and HRR's reconstruction..





It's also the way that the Armae/Deepeeka partnership have made their reconstruction.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ ... H6052N.jpg

So as far as I can see.. all the reconstructions of the Gallic G are incorrect(?)

Here's the close-up of the three ridges. Do we need Deepeeka to amend them again?? :?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Hmmmmmm, I can't afford much more of this...... :lol:

Would be nice to be able to see the actual helmet. that would help answer the question I guess. Know anyone at mainz?

[Tarbicus]

bugger

[Matt Lukes]

Quite so- well-spotted Ade. I can see it's quite obvious in one higher-contrast image of the Worms helmet I have too. Isn't that supposed to have been one of the defining features between the G and H? Most other Gallics have three ridges too.

But come on people- it's hardly a big deal unless you want an exact replica of the Worms helmet as opposed to just a Gallic-type helmet, and the Deepeeka is already hardly a perfect replica :wink:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Ah well, guess I will await the new Gallic "I" mainz...... :roll:

[Magnus]

Yeah, who cares. Great eyes though Adrian.

[Marcus Caecilius Avitus]

My personal view is that Robinson's classifications are far too prescriptive. in the same same way that Lorica reffered to all body arnour (segmentata being a modern convention), we are trying to apply a modern classification system which may have been totally foreign to the roman way of thinking. I can well believe that the G and H are jsut subtle regional and artisan variations on the same basic design.

From Adrian's evidence it looks like that suposed characteristic is wrong, Well spotted Adrian. :? Research moves on eh?

Probably the best we'll ever be able to say is that we have a helmet with Gallic/Itallic characteristics.

If that's not good enough then it's time to trade up :x .

So as Jim so eloquently put it.......Bugger!!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Guess I could try to 'modify' the eyebrows..... hock: hock: hock:

[Matt Lukes]

But why? What's the issue with one less indentation in the metal? Who's to say there wasn't a Gallic with a single groove and not two? If you're going to be concerned about that detail, you'd better fix the florate bosses too, and the upper portion of the cheekguard hinges are backwards- they roll in on the original- the forward edges of the earguards is wrong, the occipital region should be straight not pinched in, etc., etc. It's a decent Gallic, but not a perfect replica of the Worms helmet by any means...

[Tarbicus]

So as Jim so eloquently put it.......Bugger!!

No, no. I was calling Ade a bugger for spoiling my Gallic G.

:wink:

[M. Demetrius]

Jim, you called him a herpetologist?

I don't get it, but if you do, I won't ask, won't tell. :? wink:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I was going to mention those things too, Matt, but like you say.....Why bother! I am happy enough with it as is...and am waiting for the new Mainz'I', and the neidermormters, and, and ,and, so........

I already had new cheek pieces made for my old 'I', only for it to be superceded, so, unless they make another 'G' with all the corrections mentioned, I'm not that fussed! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Also have a pugio to buy, or two, and a montefortino, and some mail, and a new belt, and a custom scabbard by Primus Pilus, so I'll just settle for as is for now!

Hmmmmm, now I have an idea, shiny new Gallic cheek pieces, and a new style Mainz 'I', I see a great relationship over the horizon.... D

[Matt Lukes]

Jim, you called him a herpetologist?

I don't get it, but if you do, I won't ask, won't tell. :? wink:

What do snakes have to do with anything? LOL A Herpetologist studies snakes... :wink:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Does he? hock: As well as being a bugger with herpes? hock: hock: hock:

[Peroni]

I'm not trying to stir the pot with regard to the recent improvements etc, it was just an observation that nearly all reconstructions from 1973 onwards of this helmet have followed HRR's guidelines and reconstruction without anyone noticing it before! :? It is quite possible that the only pictures HRR had were the ones he published without actually seeing the helmet for himself.

The colour photographs have been on the RA Helmet Database for a long time now, and still it got missed! Hell! I only realised today! :oops:

Byron wrote..

Would be nice to be able to see the actual helmet. that would help answer the question I guess. Know anyone at mainz?

The colour pictures in the first post are of the original Byron :wink:

I can well believe that the G and H are just subtle regional and artisan variations on the same basic design.

I totally agree with you there!! They're contemporary helmets with regional variations as I see it. The differences between the (limited) Gallic D- H types (following HRR) are minimal. But that said, even the Sisak C has the same eyebrows as the Besancon F and the adapted Krefeld bowl!!

(goes to bed more confused....)