Making a (first century AD) tunic

[Gaius Colletti]

Seeing as none of the pictures have made it through the times apparently, can anyone post pictures? And from what Crispus described, there are no sleeves, there are just holes for the arms, which because the garmet is so big anyways become sleeves, or at least look like them when armor is worn?

[Cheyenne]

Hey,

My tunics are made with no arms, but just holes in a square of material when the garment is laid flat. In terms of looking at comparative sources, this is most likely the way an everyday military tunic was worn. The garment is very wide however: the known examples that Graham has documented from his large body of work suggest that the average width of one of these tunics would have been between 1.2 and 1.5m wide when laid flat - the length would actually have been shorter than the width which when worn under armour, would have given the impression that they may have had sleeves - but my preference is for some kind of pleating or bunching with fibula when the tunic was worn without sub/armours etc.
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[Gaius Colletti]

Thanks Cheyenne, So when the tunic is worn under segmentata (I'm assuming segmentata, I don't know what you have)it doesnt look too baggy. I know what Crispus said when he started the article, I just want to get everything right before I start. If you have pictures with it under the armor, that would be most appreciated, or anybody who has done something similar, I'd like to see what it looks like with armor. Thanks for your help

[Crispvs]

Does this help?




Crispvs

[Gaius Colletti]

Thanks Crispus, so your tunic just looks like a giant rectangle when laid out flat? It really does appear that your tunic has sleeves

[Titvs Statilivs Castvs]

Look at my profile picture: my tunic seems to have sleeves, but it is indeed just a rectangle.:-)

[Crispvs]

That' right Matt. The tunic in the picture I posted up is rectangular with no sleeves. When a waist tie is tied around the tunic, the excess width drops over the arms to create sleeves. It also becomes very baggy on the body when hitched up. Take a look at the depictions of unarmoured soldiers on the Arch of Titus:
http://pericopedeadultera.com/CHRON/CHUR...-titus.jpg

Crispvs

[Gaius Colletti]

Thanks Sandrus and Crispus, I am getting the material to make my tunic (100% woven linen as per the legion I am joining)and I want to get it right (the first time). I was a little skeptical about how "sleeves" would look on a tunic thats shape is a giant rectangle, but you guys have dissolved my doubt. Thanks again

[Nurglitch]

A question about stitching:
Is anything known about the exact kind of stitches used for tunics? What about decorative stitching? Do we know if there was any and if so, what kind of stitches were used?

[Cheyenne]

Hi Piotr,

There is evidence for the type of stitching that was used on ancient clothing. There are a couple of intact examples from north Africa which detail the stiches used.

The garment was usually woven in one piece on a large upright loom which would have been woven sideways (ie with the neck hole running vertically as the garment builds on the loom) and then edge finished with a type of square cord (or known as lucet in the medieval period). these would have then been joined together using a running, back or whip stitch on the edge of the garment.

I do have close up pictures of edge finished stitching - although these examples are 4th-6th century AD. The nahal haver tunic however, is much earlier and still has a similar edge finishing.

I use a whip stitch and role stitch double seam on the 1st/2nd century military tunics and I know the one I made for Mike Boyd (who posts on here) might be able to take a close up of the stitching on his tunic that I made for him. That tunic also conforms to the size of the stitching that is used on known originals (ie: between 1.2 - 2mm in stitch length)

Here are some pics of the detailing on some of the coptic textiles in the Whitworth Gallery, Manchester UK that I took last year.


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Pls note, these are not to be used in any commercial setting, I promised the museum they would be for reference only

Cheers

[Nurglitch]

So my instincts about whip stitching were correct.

The photos are great - thank you! But depressing as well, seeing how much this is beyond anything I'll ever be able to do myself



Am I correct in assuming no evidence of any kind exists for embroidery on military tunics / cloaks? Decorative stitches like chain stitch for example?

[Antoninus05]

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Here are pictures of the stitching on the 1st Century Red Linen Tunic Claire did for me recently and a photo of me in it at our recent encampment in Texas.II'm on your left in the Acquincum helmet and yes, it looks like I have sleeves as well, but I do not). Her stitching is quite intricate and all three different clothing items I have purchased from Claire are amazing, beautifully done and very authentic and with the research photos she posted above, I can see why. As you can see, the color of the fabric is dead on !
Sorry if they are a bit blurry, I got as close as I dared with my camera, Mike

[Nurglitch]

Thanks for these.


About the lucet cord - how common was this? Does it mean that tunics sewn from just fabric squares, without the cord at the hems are incorrect?

[Cheyenne]

It means that there was much variation on stitch types and edge finishes, the museum pictures are from mortuary textiles. This means that they are more of a 'sunday best' The clothing that people are buried in tend to be their best items in the ancient world and these 'custom' items of clothing reflect just as much about the people burying the dead as the dead themselves, ie: conspicious consumption of the individual after death as well as before!

So I would say that having rolled hem stitching on tunics is not inauthentic as we see a massive culture of repair 'make do and mend' in Roman textiles. If we think about issued tunics - there would have been an element of shortening etc from the original woven items as they are passed through the legion to make them fit the individual - here is also a few pics from the same collection which detail the repairs that we see to even the best items.


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Roman darning on a long womans shawl


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Cloak hood detailing roll stitch repairs

I hope this helps, and many thanks to Mike for the tunic pics.

Embroidery stitching is very much used in Roman textiles. There is mention (and I forget where, so if someone can help with the ref - i'd be most appreciative) that Roman parade armour (particularly the subarmours) were heavily embroidered and tapestried and the most common stitches used on items such as coptic panels etc is couched (where the tread is laid flat and sewn down by another thread from the back) or chain stitch, tightly stitched into spirals to create the image. There are some in the Brooklyn museum which can be viewed on display there

[Nurglitch]

Embroidery stitching is very much used in Roman textiles. There is mention (and I forget where, so if someone can help with the ref - i'd be most appreciative) that Roman parade armour (particularly the subarmours) were heavily embroidered and tapestried and the most common stitches used on items such as coptic panels etc is couched (where the tread is laid flat and sewn down by another thread from the back) or chain stitch, tightly stitched into spirals to create the image. There are some in the Brooklyn museum which can be viewed on display there

I see, thank you So on battle uniform basic embroidery would be ok? E.g. - on a red tunic a white linen chain stitching along all the tunic's hems?