Italian Hoplite 500BC

[Caius Titius Verus]

Hi there!

This is my first post on this part of the forum.
Since my first century roman impressions are somewhat reaching there completion, I'm planning on starting my VERY early roman Impression now :-) )

I'm afraid I'll have to bother you guys with some really basic questions since I'm kind of new to 'the hoplite':$

-First of all; the tunic, what should be the pattern? Should it just be two rectangles of linen or wool sewn together like a roman one? Should it be as wide as a roman one (ie reaching from one elbow to the other when not bound around the middle...)

-Would it be ok to use a falcata (kopis) for such an impression? Or would you recommend another type of sword?

-Then, I'm planning on making my Linothorax out of one piece like the one on Matthew Amt's site(instead of a rear, a front and two sides). Is it necessary to let the linen, when glued, dry around something to form it? Or can I just make my glued linen patch and afterwards, when dry, soak it in hot water, form it around something, and allow it to dry again?

Many thanks!
Tom

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/100page ... reece1.htm

And

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Fashion.htm

Beware,there were also other kinds od chitons for men that are more difficult to make.I asume you do not want to reconstuct an Etruscan or Italiote but one of the Greek colonies' hoplite. By 500bc these would be the same as the rest of the Greeks.

Kopis is fine.

If you follow Matt's cinstruction in everything,like number of layers and type of glue,then follow his instructions. I used different materials and different glue and let it dry open. The thorax is supposed to be flexible, so you shouldn't have a problem. Have in mind there is "currently" a debate about glued vs quilted linen in this forum. Go here:
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... 9&start=80
and especially here:
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0
Good luck in making any safe decisions and good luck for the constuction.
Khaire
Giannis

P.S. If you want more info about that more "elegant" chiton type,pm me.But the simpler one is fine,too,and what most re-enactors prefer.

[Paullus Scipio]

For Etruscan/Roman hoplites, see Peter Connolly "Greece and Rome at War" and "Hannibal and the Enemies of Rome" for illustrations and detailed discussions of weapons, likely helmet types etc......they are similar, but significantly different to Greek types.

[JP Vieira]

Hello
Here is my illustration of a Etrusco-Roman Hoplite (6th century bC).
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1/JP ... tecopy.jpg
Best regards
JP Vieira

[Josef]

Hello
Here is my illustration of a Etrusco-Roman Hoplite (6th century bC).
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1/JP ... tecopy.jpg
Best regards
JP Vieira

looks the same like a greek hoplite in my untrained eyes

[Paullus Scipio]

Josef has a point -- Etrusco-Roman Hoplites looked very much like their Greek originals, except maybe for some Italic features such as side feathers on helmets ( though these are not unknown in Greece ).The public are going to see 'greek' and Tom is going to be spending a lot of time, saying "No, It's early Etrusco-Roman, actually".

If you don't mind foregoing all that glueing for a tube-and- yoke corselet (linothorax is a Homeric term, not in use in classical times and is an anachronism, like calling an M-16 an 'arquebus' ) , then why not do an impression of a native Roman, rather than Etruscan aristocracy? (see e.g. Connolly et al as referred to above ). No body armour, sword -falcata is very acceptable, having been invented in Etruria and then spread to Greece and Spain, spear, and body shield - the 'proto-scutum', slightly squared off and far, far easier to make than an Aspis.

The biggest problem would be the helmet - I don't think anyone makes early Italian helmets such as the 'Negau' or 'rimmed pot', but thanks to Greek/Etruscan influence, a 'chalcidian' or 'corinthian' or even 'pilos' type would probably be acceptable. From the 5th century on, an early 'pilum' would also be plausible !

How about that idea, Tom? Early, and uniquely 'roman' ! And you eliminate those two most difficult of items, the corselet and Aspis.
( unless of course making them is the attraction ! )

[JP Vieira]

Hello
Here is an illustration of a medium spearman (Class II) of the Etrusco-Roman Army:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1/JP ... IIcopy.jpg
It has some Italian equipment that can be used on your reconstruction (helmet, etc).
Best regards
JP Vieira

[Caius Titius Verus]

Thank you guys for all the great info!

@JP Vieira Did you make these illustrations? They are truly GREAT!

@ Paullus, yes making these items is part of the attraction for me :-) ) I try making as much myself as possible.
The aspis is a type of shield I havn't made before, I make all kinds of roman shields though. Now I'm curious at making one of these...

Thanks again for all the help!
Best regards,
Tom

[JP Vieira]

Hello Tom
Yes I am the illustrator of those.
They are part of an illustration depicting different troop types of the Etrusco-Roman Army of the 6th century BC.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1/JP ... nroman.jpg
You can check my work online at
http://community.imaginefx.com/fxpose/j ... fault.aspx
Also, be sure not to miss issue 2 of the new magazine "Ancient Warfare": it features two new illustrations from me, on Ruben Post's article 'Alexandrian Stelae and the Ptolemaic army of the 3rd C BC'.
Best regards
JP Vieira

[Caius Titius Verus]

Waauw! Wish I could do it!!! Magnificent

Your late roman is great as well :-) )

No first century romans yet? ;-) )

Best regards,
Tom

[JP Vieira]

Hello Tom
Many thanks for your comments.
I am doing a series of illustration at the moment, but, regrettably, no 1st century Roman.
I am always searching for "not-much-seen" troop types as a bases for illustration. If you know of a troop type not seen very much on art, please let me know.
Best regards
JP Vieira