Article request

[Doc]

Does anyone have the following article: Peter Price in the revised supplement to Arma (1989) discussing some then-recent finds of "lorica plumata" from the Roman fort at Usk in Wales

Or


Can anyone confirm that one of the plumata cuirasses found in Usk, Wales was in fact made completely of iron (both mail and scales)

Also if anyone has any details in terms of dimensions, I would appreciate it.

Thanks

Paolo

[martijn.wijnhoven]

Hi,

In the below mentioned article there is indeed mention of 2 pieces of iron lorica plumata and one very small piece of bronze plumata.

Price, P.
1983 An interesting Find of Lorica Plumata from the Roman Fortress at Usk. In: Roman Military Equipment: Proceedings of a Seminar held in the Department of Ancient History and Classical Archaeology at the University of Sheffield, 21th of March 1983. M.C. Bishop (editor), pp.12-13.

I will cite from the article:

´During the examination of the ironwork from the Neronian legionary fortress at Usk, Gwent fragments of an unusual nature were identified by x-radiography. Upon a close inspection of the badly corroded pieces it was found that they consisted of a very fine chain mail with a covering of extremely small scales. The two principal fragments measured 10 cm by 4 cm and 3.5 cm by 8 cm, both pieces appeared to be part of a much larger cuirass and had the appearance of being either chopped or cut up. The lorica plumata from Usk seems to be relatively unusual in that unlike other fragments that have been described, both the mail and the covering scales appear to have been constructed solely of iron, with no traces of bronze scales being found.´

´The backing mail is composed of 3 mm diameter links, and the tapering scales that cover it are 7 mm long and 4.5 mm wide. Although badly corroded it is just possible to make out the method of attachment of the scales, which is similar to other scale armour of this type, namely each scale having its upper edge turned back at right angles to the face of the scale, with four holes punched through for the mail rings that are inserted before being riveted together.´

´As well as the iron plumata a small fragment of bronze plumata has been recognised from Usk, this fragment measured only 1 cm by 1 cm and was very badly corroded, but it appears to be formed of 3 mm diameter bronze links, with a single scale measuring 7 mm by 3 mm present.´

Good luck and greetings,

Martijn

[Doc]

Thank you very much Martijn,

I have some other questions that you could possibly answer in the event the article mentions them:

Is the chainmail ring diameter given the internal diameter or outer diameter. Is the 3mm diameter given the same for both the riveted rings and punched rings or just for the riveted rings.

Was there any evidence of silvering or tinning

How thick (gauge) are the chainmail rings and what is the gauge of the scales.


Thank you very much

Paolo

[Doc]

Martijn,

I forgot to ask on the last post. Was it reported in the article that the iron scales on the iron plumata had a medial rib. Were they curved at all.

Thanks

Paolo

[martijn.wijnhoven]

Paolo,

The article from Price (1983: 12-13) unfortunately does not include much more information than the citation I have already posted. Neither is it provided with a photo or illustration. I hope that someone on this forum might have more information on this specimen (see also my other posts).

All the lorica plumata that I have seen up to present have a medial ridge, so although Price does not mention the ridge I speculate that it is also present in the Usk plumata; it is one of its diagnostic features. Moreover, it is not entirely clear if the term lorica plumata refers to the hybrid mix of scale (squamata) and mail (hamata) or to a lorica squamata with scales that contain a medial ridge.

Again Price does not mention if the scales are curved. Robinson (for references see my other post under Roman Military History & Archaeology) does mention that the Leiden plumata is slightly curved.

Most references to plumata (or mail in general) do not cite if the internal or external diameter is given. An exception is Erik D. Schmidt who does mention the dimensions of the plumata rings and scales of the Newstead plumata. You can get them at this link:

http://p200.ezboard.com/Lorica-plumata- ... =978.topic

Always consider that any measurement taken on such small objects can differ somewhat from the original size due to corrosive processes.

It seems that the riveted rings were larger than the punched rings in the lorica plumata. Although not every literary source mentions inner and outer diameter, they all mention the riveted rings being of a larger size than the punched ones.

There has been much speculation on the internet about silvering or tinning. Besides the internet the only source that hints at such a practice for the plumata is Robinson. He mentions the possibility of tinning while discussing the lorica squamata in general and then suddenly jumps to the Augsburg plumata. Probably two different types of metal were used for the scales in this specimen. Robinson never clearly states that the Augsburg plumata was tinned or silvered.

I can give you a citation:

Roman loricae could be made more colourful by tinning only every alternate scale so that a silver and gold chequerboard effect was produced. Forty-seven scales treated in this way were found at Ham Hill in Somerset; and a lorica hamata, now in Augsburg, covered with fine scales of iron and bronze must have originally presented a similar rich appearance.

(Robinson 1975: 156).

If you want to know more about the lorica plumata, my other post (known specimens of lorica plumata - in the section: Roman Military History and Archaeology) includes a bibliographical list of sources that mention or describe plumatae. This list is far from complete and therefore I ask anybody who has more/other information on the lorica plumata to post a reply.

With kind regards,

Martijn

[Tarbicus]

I've got a sneaky suspicion this might be alternately tinned squamata (grey remains on every other plate)?
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image ... detail.JPG

Here's the Mambri take on squamata (Babelfish'd to english):
Mambri squamata page

A couple of squamae from Castleford:
http://www.wakefieldmuseums.org/roman_castleford/
(click on them for a nice closeup)

[Erik D. Schmid]

Always consider that any measurement taken on such small objects can differ somewhat from the original size due to corrosive processes.

Most of the time, but not in this case. The links comprising the Newstead piece are in quite good condition and quite representative of what the links looked like when new other than a few rivets missing here and there.

[martijn.wijnhoven]

Thank you for this addition, this makes the measurements from the Newstead specimen even more significant.

I was just wandering if there is a any difference in the article written by Price in 1983 (mentioned above) and the one published in 1989 in Arma. Is this last one just a repetition of the earlier article or is there new information added.

greetings,

Martijn

[D B Campbell]

... the one published in 1989 in Arma

There doesn't seem to be anything by Peter Price in Arma, Martijn.

[D B Campbell]

Can anyone confirm that one of the plumata cuirasses found in Usk, Wales was in fact made completely of iron (both mail and scales)

It looks as if you need: Excavations at Usk, Vol. 7: The Roman Small Finds.

(Sorry -- I don't have it here.)

[martijn.wijnhoven]

Thank you for clarifying that. This topic was the second time on the internet that the revised supplement of Arma (1989) was connected to an article of Price concerning the Usk plumata. This got my hopes up as it might reveal more information on this theme.

I am aware of the Manning publication, but have not had the time jet to follow up on this book. The nearest copy is located in a museum library and involves having to make an appointment to see the book. Maybe someone can tell if the content concerning the Usk plumata is any different from that already cited above from the article written by Price in 1983?

Greetings,

Martijn

[Doc]

How do they know that it is iron. X-ray flourescence is the most accurate method in determining the actual metal content provided that the detector on the instrument is capable of detecting the metals in question.

Outside of this, I think that metal precipitation and gravimetric analysis would be needed resulting in the destruction of the sample.

I do not think that simple x-ray could just verify if it is iron.

Paolo

[martijn.wijnhoven]

Paolo,

If I am not mistaken you are a chemist and this is more your field of study and I am just speculating. It is not uncommon in archaeology that through X-rays it is determined if a piece of dirt contains more solid structures. Maybe the X-rays were used only to recognize the presence of those structures and this was followed by a physical cleaning which allowed the artefact to be studied and identified. Again, this is merely speculating, because Price does not mention in his article how this process was done.

Maybe somebody else knows for certain how this was done in the Usk specimen that was involved at the time with the study of this artefact.

Greetings,

Martijn

[Doc]

Martijn,

Yes, I am a chemist. However, doing some reading and speaking to Erik, it is possible to tell non ferrous and ferrous materials using x-ray.
(My expertise is in synthetic organic chemistry)

You cannot tell what type (composition) of non ferrous material it is via x-ray but you will be able to tell by the appearence of the x-ray if something is ferrous or not.

This is probably the way that they determined what the substances were.

Again if there is more, I would like to know.

Paolo

[martijn.wijnhoven]

That clears things up. Is there anyone that can tell if the Manning publication on the plumata found at Usk contains other information than the article published by Price (which relevant contents on the specimen is cited above)?

Greetings,

Martijn


Manning, W.H., Price, J., and Webster, J
1995 Roman Small Finds: Report on the Excavations at Usk 1965-1976. Vol. VII, University of Wales Press.

Price, P.
1983 An interesting Find of Lorica Plumata from the Roman Fortress at Usk. In: Roman Military Equipment: Proceedings of a Seminar held in the Department of Ancient History and Classical Archaeology at the University of Sheffield, 21th of March 1983. M.C. Bishop (editor), pp.12-13.