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Greek Helmet/ armour database
#1
Here is Jasper's response to the idea of a Greek database :- we have a go-ahead. I guess the first order of business is to find the two editors necessary - alas, I cannot be one for reasons of time pressure and lack od computer skills Sad , so two volunteers are needed.
Quote:As to the Greek helmets, you mean something akin to the Roman helmet
database? Well, it'd be a little incongruous on romanarmy.com, but
that's not really an objection. I don't mind that at all. I could set it
up, fairly easily, but I really don't want to have to look after it. I'd
need one or two dedicated editors that I can show how it's done and
they'd take over. Technically, it's very easy, no coding required.
That's my first condition. The second one is that I'll only accept
photos taken by RAT members or photos for which they have received
permission to republish them. No scans, no nicking from other websites.
I'm not fussy about that on RAT, but I don't want to run the risk of
copyright blabla on the site. Finally, the prospective editors would
have to decide whether to include actual helmets only or if they'd
include vases, sculpture etc as well. In either case, I'll probably have
some photos to contribute.

All the best,

Jasper
No scans, no nicking from other websites.
I'm not fussy about that on RAT, but I don't want to run the risk of
copyright blabla on the site.

Jasper means that there should be no risk of infringing someone else's copyright, and possible legal hassles, since it will be on a usable database, as opposed to a chat forum.

Next we need to discuss what to put on it, as Jasper says. Helmets, obviously...vases, there are so many ( see e.g. Beasley database cataloguing all Confusedhock: ) that if we include vases, it must be armour/equipment only, in my opinion Smile ...statues, there aren't that many... and almost all are "restored" e.g. adding crests, wrong equipment etc

What does everyone else think ?
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
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#2
Obviously Jasper is responsible for RAT and it is logical what he is asking about copyright. However this means I can offer about 15 pics of less than 10 helmets. Pretty much few,compared to the hundreds of photos I've collected for many years from the internet. I started doing that only for personal use and thus I don't have permission to use them in public. An I suppose this is the case with many members who have plenty of very interesting helmets to show.
If there is no other way to be done,though,I'll send those few photos I have and with the hope that many people have a few photos to add,we can still gather a fairly good number of helmets.
Khairete
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#3
My issue is the same as Giannis....

I guess with time I will do a reconstruction of such helmet that I can't show in 3d, if I get close enough( PS: If that is an acceptable option)... Patience can do the job better I guess... I still learning.

Maybe other person with more skills can also do it.
MNI Gioi u F**ckers Smile <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" />Smile
Remarks by Philip on the Athenian Leaders:
Philip said that the Athenians were like the bust of Hermes: all mouth and dick.
:lol: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" />:lol:
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#4
The only solution is to host the database in a different site, of not profit character (i.e. of educational character).
Ioannis Georganas, PhD
Secretary and Newsletter Editor
The Society of Ancient Military Historians
http://www.ancientmilitaryhistorians.org/


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#5
Quote:The only solution is to host the database in a different site, of not profit character (i.e. of educational character).
That doesn't avoid the copyright issue, it just shifts the burden from RAT to whomever is running the other site. If we do it here I'll volunteer myself to be one of the editors. And I can nick photos from my own websites, if nothing else... :wink:

If there are important helmets that no one can get a picture of except via copyrighted sources, maybe someone more artistic than I could at least sketch it from the photo?
Dan Diffendale
Ph.D. candidate, University of Michigan
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#6
Quote:
Quote:If there are important helmets that no one can get a picture of except via copyrighted sources, maybe someone more artistic than I could at least sketch it from the photo?

That is what exaclty I have suggested. but 3d. in fact can be any.

We have very talented people on RAT, but we dont know if they would be interested & do it for love & free.

I know Johnny is too bussy doing stuff for the magazine... but if interested I can assit him with photos...

I remeber this from him:

[Image: helm.jpg]

Daniel from Italy
Tarbicus
Veira
& others 3d modelers & artist like Graham Paullus Scipio etcfrom RAT are invitated as well :twisted:

I can offer myself but once the sketch etc is aproved.
MNI Gioi u F**ckers Smile <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" />Smile
Remarks by Philip on the Athenian Leaders:
Philip said that the Athenians were like the bust of Hermes: all mouth and dick.
:lol: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" />:lol:
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#7
Danno Ulpius said:-
Quote:If we do it here I'll volunteer myself to be one of the editors. And I can nick photos from my own websites, if nothing else...
That's one ! Many thanks Dan, in volunteering and taking on the critical task in getting this off the ground.....and you obviuosly have the necessary skills, judging by your website.....an immediate laudes for you! Big Grin D
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
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#8
Ioannis said:-
Quote:The only solution is to host the database in a different site, of not profit character (i.e. of educational character).
...the proposed Database will be just that, surely? - non-commercial, of educational character.

Quote:If there are important helmets that no one can get a picture of except via copyrighted sources, maybe someone more artistic than I could at least sketch it from the photo?

Dan is right - important helmets/types can be illustrated by drawings/electronic renderings etc until a photo becomes available - and, Gioi and Giannis, all is not lost with your painstaking collections - you know where they are, so permission can be sought ( by e-mail, even) and in many cases will be given, with due accreditation - most museums etc are happy to advertise that way. And if not, there is nothing stopping you copying it in some way - as long as what is posted is an original rendition Smile )
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
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#9
Giannis said:-
Quote:If there is no other way to be done,though,I'll send those few photos I have and with the hope that many people have a few photos to add,we can still gather a fairly good number of helmets.

Well, no-one said it would be easy ! Sad .....but, as the saying goes, "Rome wasn't built in a day!" (Nor Athens or Sparta either ! )......we can at least make a beginning and hope others will contribute. As it develops, we will need articles about the helmets ( and armour too, perhaps? ).

This is a very worthwhile project about an important subject and, frankly, I'm surprised one doesn't exist already......maybe one does?
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
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#10
I think artistic renders can be used alongside photos of real specimens, given that the artistic renders are of sufficient quality. Also, the idea of someone creating 3D models of each helmet intrigues me quite a bit. Perhaps utilizing flash or quicktime giving a virtual 3D real-time ability to rotate the helmets (on all 3 axises). Johnny's helmet study is awesome. Perhaps he could find time to contribute here and there. Some others of us aren't too shabby on Photoshop either. Smile )
Michael D. Hafer [aka Mythos Ruler, aka eX | Vesper]
In peace men bury their fathers. In war men bury their sons.
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#11
Great idea, Michael ! Smile

Might be problems though - it would not be possible in every case, as only a photo from one view may be extant, and in many cases the helmets are not intact.......maybe a depiction (static) of the original, and only a "possible reconstruction" ( in 3D, but in some cases only 2D) as well may be the way to go.

This a really ambitious ( and clever! ) idea of yours, Michael, utilising modern technology to enhance the project..... a laudes for you too ! Big Grin
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
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#12
Most of the images we can't use are on free sites anyway. A clearing house of links with a useful index would be completely legal and save on memory requirements.

I'm in for whatever I can add.

Why is there no Greekarmy.com sister site?
Paul M. Bardunias
MODERATOR: [url:2dqwu8yc]http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=4100[/url]
A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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#13
I can add a few pics I made during my vacations in Hellas if you like.
Kallimachos a.k.a. Kurt

Athina Itonia
[Image: smallsun1.gif]
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#14
Quote:The only solution is to host the database in a different site, of not profit character (i.e. of educational character).
Romanarmy may be on a .com site, but I wouldn't consider this on a commercial basis. Very much educational imho!

Quote:you know where they are, so permission can be sought ( by e-mail, even) and in many cases will be given, with due accreditation
I can vouch for that from experience. If you get a reply from the museum - which is not always the case - it's pretty much always positive.
Again from experience, once you start collecting these helmets, they add up quite quickly if you have a group of people hunting for them. As I told Paul, I have quite a few photos of Greek helmets. That I don't have time to run this database does not mean I won't contribute.

Glad to see Dan volunteered!

Paul B: greekarmy.com is already registered. But you are right, an ultimate goal might be to have an all encompassing educational warfare in the Ancient world site...
Greets!

Jasper Oorthuys
Webmaster & Editor, Ancient Warfare magazine
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#15
I could do sketches of many of the helmets I have and they could be used,once approved by the moderators of the site. I'll be sending them the original photo and the sketch and they would judge it. This would be unnecessary with all those excellent artists in RAT, but the amount of work is so much that it could be useful.
Khairete
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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