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Wicker shield reconstruction
#31
Quote:What is the weight like with these?
They were supposedly heavier than regular scuta.

Byron, I think these would have to be filled / coated with concrete / lead or stone for them to be heavier, from what i can gather from reading anyways, they were apparently as much as twice the weight of their normal counterparts...

On another note, i have ordered a heap of Willow from a guy in Insch (very cheap!) for us to try to make our own! Wink
Lucius Duccius Rufinus Aka Kevin Rhynas.

"Fortes fortuna adiuvat".
[url:10c24pem]http://www.ninthlegion.co.uk[/url]
[size=75:10c24pem](work in progress...)[/size]
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#32
Quote:
Gaius Julius Caesar:21dtgffz Wrote:What is the weight like with these?
They were supposedly heavier than regular scuta.

Byron, I think these would have to be filled / coated with concrete / lead or stone for them to be heavier, from what i can gather from reading anyways, they were apparently as much as twice the weight of their normal counterparts...

On another note, i have ordered a heap of Willow from a guy in Insch (very cheap!) for us to try to make our own! Wink

Confusedhock: Confusedhock: Hmmm, I never got that impression from the reading I haver done....just they were of a heavier construction than the regular scutum, and the rudis was weighted too, to make it heavier than a regular gladius. But that would not really be too hard, a good hardwood will be heavier than a real gladius anyway.

Good to hear you sourced the willow! Smile
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#33
Quote:
Lucius Duccius Rufinus:7qypyyag Wrote:
Gaius Julius Caesar:7qypyyag Wrote:What is the weight like with these?
They were supposedly heavier than regular scuta.

Byron, I think these would have to be filled / coated with concrete / lead or stone for them to be heavier, from what i can gather from reading anyways, they were apparently as much as twice the weight of their normal counterparts...

On another note, i have ordered a heap of Willow from a guy in Insch (very cheap!) for us to try to make our own! Wink

Confusedhock: Confusedhock: Hmmm, I never got that impression from the reading I haver done....just they were of a heavier construction than the regular scutum, and the rudis was weighted too, to make it heavier than a regular gladius. But that would not really be too hard, a good hardwood will be heavier than a real gladius anyway.

Good to hear you sourced the willow! Smile

I know its not really a reliable source but http://www.ehow.com/about_4620430_roman ... ining.html

I guess with the Gladius, it could be easily weighted with the different types of wood..

but i'd imagine wicker shields would always be made from willow, no way to do that except to weigh it with other means
Lucius Duccius Rufinus Aka Kevin Rhynas.

"Fortes fortuna adiuvat".
[url:10c24pem]http://www.ninthlegion.co.uk[/url]
[size=75:10c24pem](work in progress...)[/size]
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#34
How about using thumb-thickness oak or ash for the warp, and pencil sized willow for the weft? Seems like that would add greatly to the weight. There would have to be a different way to capture the top and bottom ends, but that isn't too hard to accomplish, really, just drill another oak stick to fit the reduced ends of the long vertical sticks (warp) and fasten them together. Some baskets use a similar technique, so it's not inventing anything new.

The wicker training shields would have to be very strong to withstand a beating from a double weight wooden gladius anyway, and thicker sticks would be necessary. Seems like sound thinking to me. What do you think?
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#35
Quote:How about using thumb-thickness oak or ash for the warp, and pencil sized willow for the weft? Seems like that would add greatly to the weight. There would have to be a different way to capture the top and bottom ends, but that isn't too hard to accomplish, really, just drill another oak stick to fit the reduced ends of the long vertical sticks (warp) and fasten them together. Some baskets use a similar technique, so it's not inventing anything new.

The wicker training shields would have to be very strong to withstand a beating from a double weight wooden gladius anyway, and thicker sticks would be necessary. Seems like sound thinking to me. What do you think?

Indeed I think the shield I started myself is to soft, but those thin willow was all I was able to get. Next time I've to search for another source for thicker willow. I'll try to weight my trainingsscutum soon, but I don't think it's heavier then my 'normal scutum'. Probably even less. (Also as my normal scutum has an heave iron umbo, where the willow one has a deepeeka brass one.)
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
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#36
Could you make two and weave them together?
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
LEGIO II AVG COH VIII
It amazes me how quickly stupid people are out-breeding the smart ones.

"The greatest impediment of all is the square-jawed, flat-talking Tatum, who is so wooden he presents a fire hazard." - The Toronto Star on Channing Tatum in "The Eagle".

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#37
Well, Lookius Dookius, I did mention the link on the XIIIIth's website to the Birdoswald event of 2007, which shows the wicker shields used by the Ermine 'cough-cough' Confusedhock: Street Guard, which resemble the description Dave just gave. They look to be of sturdy construction and the handles alone look weighty enough.
I would tend to agree with you Dave, just incase my post isn't clear!! :mrgreen:

http://www.roman-empire.net/diverse/ree ... 007-3.html

Actually, not too dissimilar to the one you have from the looks of it, Jurjyen!
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#38
Quote:Could you make two and weave them together?

As said before I don't know how you would "weave them together". What could be done is using thicker or more straps at the same time, to improve the amount of willow per inch of shield.
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
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#39
Quote:
Magnus:vlxa36ni Wrote:Could you make two and weave them together?

As said before I don't know how you would "weave them together". What could be done is using thicker or more straps at the same time, to improve the amount of willow per inch of shield.

Would it not be possible to do as magnus says.. weave two, then around the edges bind the two together? wouldnt nessecarily be "Weaved" together, but certainly i'd imagine there would be nothing stopping you using willow or some kind of string to bind the two all the way around the edges, what strength this would add to the design i dont know?

I've not tried this project yet, but it looks to be pretty facinating!, we're quite lucky, where our Camp is, there is a guy who supplies Willow locally, so just 2 minutes down the road... and cheap too, i gave him the measurements of what i'm hoping to make and he said oh that'd be about £5 bundle! (might ask for double that, it does sound a bit dubious!).
Lucius Duccius Rufinus Aka Kevin Rhynas.

"Fortes fortuna adiuvat".
[url:10c24pem]http://www.ninthlegion.co.uk[/url]
[size=75:10c24pem](work in progress...)[/size]
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#40
Quote:I've not tried this project yet, but it looks to be pretty facinating!, we're quite lucky, where our Camp is, there is a guy who supplies Willow locally, so just 2 minutes down the road... and cheap too, i gave him the measurements of what i'm hoping to make and he said oh that'd be about £5 bundle! (might ask for double that, it does sound a bit dubious!).

Indeed it is, and that price is about what I also paid for the material for my first one.

But I don't think 2 layers only attached to each other on the border would make a good shield as that would make it possible that there's much difference in forces within the two layers.
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
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#41
Look at the ones in the link I added in my previous post Kevin, very much like Jurjenius one, but you can see the handles.

BTW, what legion are we? :wink:
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#42
Quote:I would tend to agree with you Dave, just incase my post isn't clear!!
Well, like they say, even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then...I get lucky now and then and get it right.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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