Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Mainz Type Gladius
#1
I`d like to present you my newest piece:

a gladius of Mainz Type with Scabbard

The blade is a generic Mainz made in the way as the "Sword of Tiberius" from Mainz with tough center layer covered by soft outer layers with welded bars of hard ened steel on the edges. All materials used are welded steels

Handle of boxwood, antler and bronze after finds from Nauportus, Dangstetten and Vindonissa (the inscription is modern :-) )

Scabbard made of linden with goatskin, frame iron, fittings brass.
the whole composition is made after a find from Idrija Pri Baci (Slovenia), the brass fittings are an interpretation of some finds from Dangstetten

data: Weight 765g
length total 668mm
length blade 498mm
width max. 57mm
thickness at the handle 5,5mm
" at 2/3 of length 4,5mm
" of point 6mm
dating is roughly 20 B.C. - 20 A.D.

enjoy :-)


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
Less than 1 minute ago" />    Less than 1 minute ago" />    Less than 1 minute ago" />    Less than 1 minute ago" />    Less than 1 minute ago" />    Less than 1 minute ago" />   
Als Mensch zu dumm, als Schwein zu kleine Ohren...

Jürgen Graßler

http://www.schorsch-der-schmied.de
http://www.facebook.com/pages/AG-Histori...2642993872
Reply
#2
It´s very simple and elegant at the same time. I like it a lot. AS I have commented on FB I did not know that there were scabbards so similar to the interpretation of the fitting from Kalkriese.
Didn´t you say that there is very few evidence of antler hilt pieces? I thought it was from bone. I prefer antler tough
Regards
Reply
#3
by mentioning similar fittings to the Kalkriese ones you mean the pieces with the rosettae?

in the "Miks" there are 9 of them. 5 from Dangstetten, 2 from Idrija Pri Baci, the Kalkriese piece and 1 from Vindonissa

the guy who made the hilt didn`t have a pieco of bone in suitable size by hand, so he used antler :-)
normally I prefer bone
Als Mensch zu dumm, als Schwein zu kleine Ohren...

Jürgen Graßler

http://www.schorsch-der-schmied.de
http://www.facebook.com/pages/AG-Histori...2642993872
Reply
#4
Yes, the general concept of the rosetae. I though the Kalkriese fittings were a rarity.
You have encouraged me to try a couple of these scabbards. We´l see how they end. Actually I went inmediately to buy silver and three tourqoise stones (didn´t find agata).

I noticed the reinforced point
Are all of them reinforced one way of another? It seems that, isn´t it?
Reply
#5
reinforced points: yea, it seems so, but I don`t know for sure. many of the blades in the "Miks" don`t have cross-sections drawn , especially of the point.
The Sisak blade is one example, it looks as if the point is thicker than the blade.
Als Mensch zu dumm, als Schwein zu kleine Ohren...

Jürgen Graßler

http://www.schorsch-der-schmied.de
http://www.facebook.com/pages/AG-Histori...2642993872
Reply
#6
Peter Johnsson said that the famous guttman pompeii had a point thicker to the point, like a inversed distal taper. Sometimes you can guess a reinforced point by the ridge depicted in the picture or drawing. Sometimes is evident that such a notorious ridge can only mean a significant thickness.
Reply
#7
the Guttmann blade is special, too. Its point is not only reinforced but has the cross-section of a "cross"-screwdriver which I haven`t seen on any other blade till now. I think that normally it was made like a square bolt turned 45° to the blade
Als Mensch zu dumm, als Schwein zu kleine Ohren...

Jürgen Graßler

http://www.schorsch-der-schmied.de
http://www.facebook.com/pages/AG-Histori...2642993872
Reply
#8
   


Really nice work. As to the reinforced points, I understood that after the initial realization of the guttman gladius, many more were re examined and found to have similar points.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
Reply
#9
I'm looking to make several Mainz pattern gladii. My goal is to use as authentic methods as possible, at least for the forging.
Do you have any sources on profile and taper to establish the outlines in this piece? I have found frustratingly little information on such things.
Reply
#10
(04-02-2016, 10:56 PM)Timothy Park Wrote: I'm looking to make several Mainz pattern gladii. My goal is to use as authentic methods as possible, at least for the forging.
Do you have any sources on profile and taper to establish the outlines in this piece? I have found frustratingly little information on such things.

Do you have access to Miks? 
It is an expensive publication, but a goldmine on roman swords. 
Apart from being in German!
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
Reply
#11
all said by Gaius Julius Smile

apart from that there is always the possibility of measuring originals. the one above is generic, based upon data drawn from the "Miks" including all of the pieces of the "classic" Mainz blades cited in that publication and some other subtypes (Sisak, Haltern-Camoludunum etc.)
the main problem in publications is to get really REALLY proper info about the distal taper and the widening to the "bolt"-point of these blades. but that problem does exist in publications on swords throughout all ages of history...    sadly
Als Mensch zu dumm, als Schwein zu kleine Ohren...

Jürgen Graßler

http://www.schorsch-der-schmied.de
http://www.facebook.com/pages/AG-Histori...2642993872
Reply
#12
I'll see if I can track that down. I appreciate the recommendation. 

The Mainz presents some forging challenges. I note that most of the reproductions are diamond cross section, keep the spine parallel and, of course, tend to resort to a good deal of grinding.

My preference, and I'm sure the original fabrication is more on the anvil and less with the stock removal. 

The one secondary source that I need to track suggests a lenticular cross section which, to my mind, is the more likely. 

But in either case, what they actually were is of interest because my intent is to reverse engineer the process. 

Intriguing.
Reply
#13
there are some originals with a lenticular cross section, but the mass is a diamond shape.
that suggests that the lenticular ones may have suffered more from corrosion than the others and in fact all blades may have been diamond shaped, but that`s just a guess.

IMHO the best way to work on any reconstruction is not to think in archaeological "types" and their definitons but to study an original as properly as possible and to get  (and use!) as much data as available on it

but in the end, the result will always be an interpretation and not a 100% copy Smile 
that`s impossible to make
Als Mensch zu dumm, als Schwein zu kleine Ohren...

Jürgen Graßler

http://www.schorsch-der-schmied.de
http://www.facebook.com/pages/AG-Histori...2642993872
Reply
#14
(04-04-2016, 06:10 AM)XorX Wrote: but in the end, the result will always be an interpretation and not a 100% copy Smile 
that`s impossible to make

The perspective is much appreciated. Triggered some thinking.

There are six transitions in a Mainz. Three each edge. Two for the waist. Those 2/4 should be ... interesting ... on the anvil.
Reply
#15
(04-02-2016, 10:56 PM)Timothy Park Wrote: I'm looking to make several Mainz pattern gladii. My goal is to use as authentic methods as possible, at least for the forging.
Do you have any sources on profile and taper to establish the outlines in this piece? I have found frustratingly little information on such things.

Not sure if this helps for what you're doing Timothy but I have drawings on my site for quite a few blades. Please have a browse through my drawings and maybe they can give you a starting point. The sword of Tiberius drawing is a good Mainz example and the blade geometries are a good overall description of profile and distal tapers.


Historicalcad

R
egards

Jim

(08-19-2015, 07:50 PM)XorX Wrote: I`d like to present you my newest piece:

a gladius of Mainz Type with Scabbard
Very nice work Jurgen. I love this piece. Very well done!
Jim
Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Gladius from Mainz Rado 52 7,075 08-14-2017, 08:08 PM
Last Post: Rado
  Forging Mainz Gladius Timothy Park 1 1,083 04-24-2016, 08:17 PM
Last Post: Jim Bertagnolli
  Mainz gladius munazio planco 3 993 07-10-2014, 06:32 PM
Last Post: Hephaest1on

Forum Jump: