German WWII reenacter killed by police in Seattle

[Luca]

Unbelivable:

http://www.reenactor.net/forums/index.php?page=135

[caiusbeerquitius]

Confirms me in my opinion that WWII reenactment is cheesy.... It is too close.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Not really cheesy. But I was always daunted by the press and general public attitude to people wearing military uniforms and having real (istic)
weapons.....

the OMG he must be a psycho or something attitude.

[Libitina]

It doesn't seem to be all that clear what happened? If police were at my door telling me to drop a weapon I'd do it :?

As for WW2 reenactment, if it's done in an educational and sensitive way then I don't mind. If it's just running about and killing each other for "fun" then I'm more uncomfortable as it's too fresh in our minds. There are plenty of other periods to choose which we are emotionally detached from.

It's a sad story though whatever happened.

[M. Demetrius]

WW2 isn't my thing, either, and while there weren't any Nazis in the army (officially, anyway, a German law apparently forbade members of the Nazi Party to be soldiers--though there were some high level exceptions) it's just another case of the police/public not knowing as much about history as they should. One report said that the reenactor was wearing a Nazi uniform. Had they said a "WW2 German uniform" that would be a different issue.

On the other hand, although all the facts aren't in yet, it seems to me that shooting a suspect 7 times who is carrying a bolt action rifle (while the police are wearing bulletproof vests) is terribly over the limit of reasonable force containment. Knives or bayonets will penetrate many of those vests, but nevertheless, something doesn't look quite right about all this.

I agree with the idea of following police instructions, and have tried to teach all my children that whatever the police say to do at the scene, just do without hesitation. If it's a false arrest, we'll deal with that later: better to bail someone out of jail than identify the body at the morgue.

It's very sad in many ways. I hope the investigation shows that the truth of whether the police were breaking the law by overreacting. The young man was in his own home, not out in the streets, and in the US, you can still wear whatever you want in your own house. Or at least you could last year....

[Tiberius Clodius Corvinus]

Very sad, but I really doubt that poor guy was killed for being a reenactor or wearing a German WW2 uniform but threatening others with a potentially lethal weapon after supposedly having fired shots at his home. It'S no surprise to me the police responded and cases like this have happened before and up to now that happened to him seems to be his own fault and nothing the cops are to blame for.
The police were probably trained to fire more than one round. Even if one is hit by one or more rounds he can still be able to pull the trigger. Better safe than sorry.

[Magnus]

Exactly Carsten....that article is complete BS.

"Oh...the horror!" "A reenactor was tragically killed!"

Hey dumbass, when given a lawful command by the police to drop your FIREARM with a fixed bayonet, you bloody well do it. Police are authorized to fire until the threat has been neutralized. I couldn't care less if his friends are all saying "he's a nice guy, he wouldn't do that blah blah blah". If he makes a threatening gesture after he's been warned then unfortunately the police MUST take steps to ensure their safety, the safety of their partners and the public safety as well.

I doubt the two police will lose their careers. There will be an investigation and they will be cleared.

[Luca]

Of course this is the version of the fact provided by the two policemen.
Why someone should be so stupid to have a similar behaviuor in front of two truely armed guns?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Where does it say he fired any shots? :?

[arklore70]

All the articles in the Seattle Papers and the U.S. News ( google any you like) have witness accounts of him firing off rounds out his window. Blank and live ammo was found in his apartment.

Based on what I read, the police acted properly, and I think the only reason we are even hearing about it is because he was in a WWII uniform.

Sometimes when you act like a idiot, bad things can happen to you, which seems to be clearly what happend in this case.

It's best to follow instructions of your local law enformement officals when they come and pay you a visit, especially if they are telling you to place the weapon on the ground.

If you have been wronged of your civil liberties, there is aprocess in most Western Nations to address it through the courts. Picking an arguement with police officers at gun/bayonet point is not the time or place.

[Tiberius Clodius Corvinus]

Where does it say he fired any shots? :?

I read in our press but it's here, too: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/394443_nazi02.html

[Magnus]

He doesn't need to fire any shots Byron. Police have the authority (for good reason) not to have to wait to be fired at to use lethal force. If that were the case, school shooters and such would have to open fire on police before they were shot.

The bayonet in this case alone was enough for the officers to use deadly force. Especially if the guy took a step forward, and was disobeying lawful directives from the officer. Combine that with what I'm assuming to be a very convincing Ka-98 replica, or more likely a real rifle, that more than justifies the officer's decision.

Remember, police are not there to get in fights with people...physically or otherwise. We're there to take control of the situation to prevent ongoing threats to ourselves or the public at large. That's why in a fist fight, we use pepper spray or a baton. That's why in a knife fight, we draw our hand guns. That's why when threatened with death, we are authorized to open fire and stop the threat.

Bottom line is that if the guy had listened to the officers he'd still be alive. Answering the door with a WW II rifle with a bayonet fixed is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. The police would also have identified themselves, so why he kept the weapon in his hands is beyond me.

I think this guy qualifies for a Darwin Award. Or at least an honorable mention.

[Magnus]

If you have been wronged of your civil liberties, there is aprocess in most Western Nations to address it through the courts. Picking an arguement with police officers at gun/bayonet point is not the time or place.

Hahahahah, yes indeed!

And with our service, there are more ways than you can shake a stick at for the public to complain about us lol.

[Sean Manning]

I wonder why he answered the door with a bayoneted rifle in hand? Seattle isn't post-1991 Iraq, where robbers often attack isolated homes at night.

I wonder if Miles was drunk that night? Guns and booze are a dangerous combination. This is a sad case, regardless.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Matt, the reason I asked where it said he had fired shots is because it was not mentioned in the article.

As for the way you respond to the police, that goes without saying.
Just look at what a bunch of idiots did in Greece!
Why the fact that a young boy was shot by the police, after the mob he was with firebombed them, is such a reason to try and destroy the economy of the nation you live in is beyond me.

As you say, if the polis say puta ze guna downa, it is usually a good idea to obay! Unless you are living in certain places where after you do that, they ship you off to a concentration camp or something....but that isn't the case here or there!