Translation of some Latin words needed:

[Anonymous]

Hello everybody, i need help with some Latin words and i hope one of you is willing to translate them for me:<br>
<br>
annulus<br>
assare<br>
mors<br>
vita sive sanitas<br>
vivus sive sanus<br>
sit sanum<br>
lapis<br>
mons<br>
lux<br>
ebibe calicem<br>
tu fecisti<br>
ille fecit<br>
ego dico <p><img src="http://ansuzharjaz.netfirms.com/ansuzharjazbanner.gif"/></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Here are the translations. I'm a Latin teacher so they should all be OK.<br>
<br>
annulus = a ring (on finger)<br>
assare = to roast<br>
mors = death<br>
vita sive sanitas = life if health<br>
vivus sive sanus = alive if healthy<br>
sit sanum =let it be/ may it be healthy<br>
lapis = stone<br>
mons = mountain, hill<br>
lux = light, daylight<br>
ebibe calicem = drain the goblet<br>
tu fecisti = you did/ you made<br>
ille fecit = he/that man did/made<br>
ego dico = I say/ I am saying<br>
<br>
Shaun <p></p><i></i>

[Frank Miranda]

Hey Latin teacher, this is from another thread- bracteatum (as a neut. adj., let's say, for example, modifying oppidum)- what would be the best translation?<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

bracteatus means "gold-plated/glistening like gold", though it could be used just to mean "splendid". Seneca uses it to mean "specious"'; looks good, turns out to be tat underneath.<br>
<br>
In Beard's "Latin for all occasions" he uses the phrase "bracteatum oppidum" to mean "Tinsel Town". I guess that's where you got this? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=shaunh@romanarmytalk>ShaunH</A> at: 8/17/03 9:56 am<br></i>

[Anonymous]

Thank You! <p></p><i></i>

[Frank Miranda]

Quote:</em></strong><hr>In Beard's "Latin for all occasions" he uses the phrase "bracteatum oppidum" to mean "Tinsel Town". I guess that's where you got this? <hr><br>
<br>
Yep, exactly- someone over in the other thread was wondering why this word was used as a translation of "tinsel." My Latin is now a relic of its former glory and I didn't have my dicitonary handy. I kinda, sorta remembered bracteatus-a-um having something to do with shiny.<br>
<br>
Thanks!<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

This was mentioned on another thread on RAT.<br>
<br>
Latin was pronouced different in Roman times (<em>Caesar</em> more like <em>kaisar</em> etc.).<br>
Perhaps a stupid question but how do we know this? <p>Volo anaticulam cumminosam meam!</p><i></i>

[Guest]

Salve,<br>
<br>
Wie no det sroe piepul woe kent spel duh lengwitsj.<br>
<br>
Phonetic spelling in texts give a clue to pronunication while transliteration of Latin into Greek also helps. Such spelling errors can also give away local variations and development over time (eg transition <em>ae</em> from <em>ai</em> to <em>e</em>).<br>
<br>
Some examples of spelling errors in inscriptions that provide clues to pronunciation of Caesar:<br>
<br>
<strong>Belegstelle</strong>: AE 1952, 00149<br>
<strong>Provinz</strong>: Roma <strong>Ort</strong>: Rom / Roma<br>
] / [Ner]onis Claud(i) / [Ca]is(aris!) corp(oris) cust(os) / dec(uria) Benigni / nat(ione) Bata(v)us / vix(it) ann(os) h(ic) s(itus) e(st) / posuit Calyx dec(uria) Benigni / her(es) eius ex col(legio) Germ(anorum)<br>
<br>
<strong>Belegstelle</strong>: AE 1991, 01574<br>
<strong>Provinz</strong>: Syria <strong>Or</strong>t: Tadmor / Palmyra<br>
[Marco Iulio] / [Seve]ro Philippo / n[o]bilissimo / Kaesari(!) no[b(ilissimo) pr]i[nc(ipi)] / [iuv(entutis)] Imp(eratoris) / Iul(i) Phili[pi] / [Aug]usti n(ostri) filio / coh(ors) I Fl(avia) Chal[cide]n(orum) / [eq(uitata) sagit]tar(iorum) / [3]M[3] / [3]SVLAN[3] / le[g(ato) Au]gg(ustorum) pr(o) [pr(aetore)] / [3]NE[3] / [3] Rogatiano / [3 tri]buno [3] / cu[ran]te<br>
<br>
<strong>Belegstelle</strong>: AE 1993, 00755<br>
<strong>Provinz</strong>: Venetia et Histria / Regio X <strong>Ort</strong>: Torcello<br>
Druso Kaisari(!) / Ti(beri) Aug(usti) f(ilio) divi / Aug(usti) n(epoti) / s(enatus) c(onsulto) // Me() / P() L() D() D()<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Not a stupid question at all. I often get asked. At the risk of sounding like a Latin teacher... (shoot me when I get boring).<br>
<br>
We're very lucky (?) in that enough Roman grammar books etc. have survived to give us a good picture of pronunciation.<br>
<br>
The Roman alpahebet was phonetic, unlike ours (the earliest WYSIWYG?). They basically developed the language first, then wrote it down like it sounded (not quite that simple, and Latin evolved, but near enough).<br>
<br>
A lot of Latin was transliterated into other ancient tongues like Greek, which gives us a cross-check on the sounds.<br>
<br>
Another good check is spelling mistakes in Latin; what did the writer put to give the sound of the word he didn't know how to spell? These also help to tell us when the pronunciation of Latin changed; I think I'm right in saying that "v" stopped being a "w" sound in the C3rd AD, and actually became our "v" sound. But it's not my period so don't quote me on that.<br>
<br>
Many modern European languages (French, Spanish, Portugese, Italian) have the same sounds as Latin, from which they derived; so that gives us more clues. The example you give, Caesar = Kaiser, is actually a good one; why did the Germans adopt the word with a hard "c" sound? Because that's what they heard the Romans say! Same in Russian; TSar is a hard sound - same word.<br>
<br>
Best book on the subject is W. Sidney Allen's "Vox Latina", Cambridge 1965. <p></p><i></i>

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

ancient Roman grammar books<br>
<br>
zzzzzz<br>
<br>
hmmm, interesting stuff both of you. It is also funny to see how many words we use today come from other languages (like the dutch word cacao for example -> from the Maya word "kakaw(a)") <p>Volo anaticulam cumminosam meam!</p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

I found this thread while searching for how to learn to pronounce Medieval Latin as it would have been spoken in Germany.<br>
<br>
Any ideas? <p></p><i></i>

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

If i understand ShaunH correctly, German is a softer language then Latin. Therefore medieval Germans probaby would have softified Latin because of this. Compare when a a Non-English person tries to speak English for example, the person will speak English with an accent. I think that it was probably the same here.<br>
<br>
But that´s my 10 denarii...<br>
<br>
gr, jeroen <p>Volo anaticulam cumminosam meam!</p><i></i>

[TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS]

<br>
Salue ShaunH,<br>
<br>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>I think I'm right in saying that "v" stopped being a "w" sound in the C3rd AD, and actually became our "v" sound. But it's not my period so don't quote me on that.<hr><br>
<br>
In the Rome historic downtown, at the corner between via Frattina and via del Gambero, there is a XVIII century marble plate where an inscription in Italian, is written with "u" (pronunced "w") instead of "v". That seems demonstrate that, also in the later centuries in the latin and italian speaking, the pronunciation and the writing of the present "v" letter was respectively "w" and "u" yet, after so many centuries from the classic latin pronunciation.<br>
Moreover still now some present rustic idioms in the neighboroughs of Rome maintain the pronunciation "w" of the "v": for example "uacca" instead of "vacca" (meaning cow).<br>
<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Titus Sabatinus Aquilius<br>
<br>
<br>
“At nostris militibus cunctantibus maxime propter altitudinem maris, qui decimae legionis aquilam ferebat, obtestatus deos ut ea res legioni feliciter eveniret, 'desilite' inquit 'commilitones, nisi vultis aquilam hostibus prodere; ego certe meum rei publicae atque imperatori officium praestitero.' hoc cum voce magna dixisset, se ex navi proiecit atque in hostes aquilam ferre coepit tum nostri cohortati inter se, ne tantum dedecus admitteretur, universi ex navi desiluerunt. hos item ex proximis navibus cum conspexissent, subsecuti hostibus adpropinquaverunt.â€Â

[Anonymous]

Titus, many thanks for the feedback on "v"; I thought I was probably wrong. I must have read it somewhere, though.<br>
<br>
Before I say anything else, therefore, I have to stress again that anything later than AD 120 is not my pigeon! But for what it's worth...<br>
<br>
Of medieval Latin generally, it is unclear how it was pronounced, and probably varied widely from area to area. Best guide is modern church Latin, as well as the local language at the time. People will tend to read foreign languages in their own accent; witness the English massacring the French language, saying Pariss instead of Paree.<br>
<br>
Quick and dirty summary of known pronunciation changes from classical Latin:<br>
<br>
c before a, o, u = k<br>
c before e, i = ch<br>
c sometimes used instead of a t to produce a "ts" sound like in "pizza" (e.g classical gratia became medieval gracia, pronounced grah-tsee-ah).<br>
<br>
g before a, e, u = hard g<br>
g before e, i = j<br>
<br>
sc before a, o, u = sk<br>
sc before e, i = sh<br>
<br>
ae/oe = ay (as in hay)<br>
<br>
gn = ny (as in canyon)<br>
<br>
i = ee (as in sheep)<br>
<br>
Modern church Latin may however give few clues to specific areas such as Germany, since church Latin has fossilized an Italianate pronunciation. I do know that modern German choirs tend to sing the Latin "pacem" (classical pronunciation "par-kem", modern church Latin "par-chem") as if it were spelled "part-zem", so that may be relevant.<br>
<br>
Sorry not to be more helpful; are there any genuine experts out there?<br>
<br>
If you think the problem of Latin pronunciation is dull, you should hear people arguing about ancient Greek...<br>
<br>
Shaun <p></p><i></i>