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"The trek was indeed fun, but not all the time. The best thing of a day of marching was the arrival: a welcome comitee, interested visitors, a warm meal, occasionally a shower, and the prospect of getting this ******** armour and the luggage off ! Marching itself was less pleasant, of course."<br>
<br>
That pretty much sums up how I felt whilst marching the length of Hadrian's Wall in August. Even though I was going through beautiful countryside and had the chance to see parts of Hadrian's Wall which are not normally easy to see or get to, most of the time I was just concentrating on keeping my impedimenta in the right place, not falling too far behind the man next to me, staring into the back of the man directly in front and thinking of increasingly brutal ways to silence the man near the front who was calling step as we scrambled over broken ground. I wonder if it seemed different to the pair of men at the front! At the end of a day's marching all I wanted to do was to sit down, have a drink, take my caligae off and soak my feet in something soothing (that last thing never materialised). One thing I did not enjoy was having to do a field display in a park in Haltwistle after having just completed roughly seven hours' marching. The applause from the public was nice but a stiff drink would have been better. On the plus side, all the way along we recieved a good reception from walkers doing the same route, many of whom donated generously to the charities we were collecting for. By the fourth day people we met were showing us newspaper articles about our march and many were turning out specially to see us go past. We also recieved tremendous support from the people of Haltwistle, in particular the liesure centre, who treated us to free showers and swimming and the Black Bull pub who ran a raffle on our behalf.<br>
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Flavius, if your march was anything like ours it must have been both exhausting, exhilarating and an experience not to be forgotten.<br>
<br>
Crispvs<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net">www.romanarmy.net
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Why would Aitor not like the dragon head? They are practically on everything late Roman, ships included. One could even make the argument that the Nordic barbarians copied this from the Romans. Vikings eat your hearts out!<br>
Dan <p></p><i></i>
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"if your march was anything like ours it must have been both exhausting, exhilarating and an experience not to be forgotten."<br>
<br>
Crispus,<br>
your comment just hits the mark ! As does the description of your wall march. I found out that if you are at the head of the 'chaos-column', you can march like the devil. But as soon as you march behind someone else, it is very difficult not to fall behind.<br>
<br>
And yes, evil thoughts of silencing someone else are nothing unfamiliar. One of our light-armed 'Germanic scouts' once overtook the legionaries; he almost 'danced' by. He did not do it deliberately in order to humiliate the heavy infantry, but an 'aggressometer' would have exploded on the spot. The heavy metal boys all thought "You won't overtake me - you won't overtake me - you won't ... DAMN !"<br>
<br>
<br>
And visitors expecting huge army shows including drill ground presentations can really be a nuisance if you have marched for hours and are just unable and unwilling for a lot of folklore. Some of them must have expected legionaries breakdancing in full combat gear !<br>
(although that would indeed be nice to look at ) <p></p><i></i>
Florian Himmler (not related!)
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Oh, but the head at those Neumagen ships is not that of a dragon, but that of a wolf or the like, similar to those on marine beasts. Thats my only objection to that on your beautiful ship, Flavius!<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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Ok, but the student who carved the head of our ship made it according to the front head of the Neumagen winefreighter !<br>
<br>
So we are basically haggling about a dragon's head that looks like a blue wolf or dog with slit eyes and large fangs which should rather look like the wolf/dog/sea monster of the Neumagen ships, from which it was taken<br>
<br>
As far as I get it, the difference between a 'dragon' and a wolf-like creature was not so clear in antiquity. The Niederbieber draco looks very much like a reptile with its scales, but a lot of draco standards look more like a wolf.<br>
<br>
Let's agree on a compromise: the Regensburg Lusoria has the head of a sea monster which is called a dragon but has strong lupine features.<br>
<br>
BTW, our students gave it the nickname 'Drachenhund' (dragon-dog) <p></p><i></i>
Florian Himmler (not related!)
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OK, I surrender!<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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Aitor,<br>
There are at least two well known dragon types in the Roman world. Those referred to as "dracos" are usually an enormous serpent. Some of these have wolflike features and some do not. It is a mistake to label all pointy eared dracos as "barbarian" as one paper suggested, for there are many in a purely Roman context. The second Roman dragon type is that which inspired the dragons of western medieval lore, and is known as a "Ketos". Like the draco, they are seen on Roman armor. All Ketos have pointed ears, some much more reptilian than others. It is possible that the pointy eared dracos on shields and windsocks are intended to be dracos of the ketos variety. Although they are usually depicted in the water, they usually have short wings (or large flippers), and clawed front arms. Other than their pointy ears some are remarkably accurate representations of real extinct marine reptiles, the Plesiosaurs. This radical, naturalistic departure from the usually absurd mythical animals of Greece and Roman,<br>
suggest they may be based on some real, as yet unknown marine creature, much akin to the so-called loch ness monster and similar creatures reported throughout scandanavia.<br>
One of the best , early Roman representations of these sea dragons is a very reptilian one (though with pointed ears) on the Augustus Peace monument, being ridden by a Nereid. However, the most common representations are late Roman Christian scenes, usually on sarcophagii or ivory book covers, where they can be seen swallowing Jonah. Yes, in the orignal biblical tests jonah was swallowed by a dragon, Tannin in the Hebrew, and Ketos in the Greek, certainly not a fish or whale. This makes more sense as well for Dragons in both the Greco-Roman religions, as well as the Judaoe-Christian were servants of God, though in the latter, this has been largely forgotten, though easily proven when going back to the original sources. It is all explained in my new "Dragon Book". But back to the Neumagen ship, the heads are unquestionably intended to represent Ketos sea dragons, which sometimes look more wolflike when depicted in Northern climes where the wolf was the most common predator for a sculptor to base another predatory animal on which he has not actually seen. I think it is an accurate and realistic touch to the reconstructed ship, bravo! <br>
Dan <p></p><i></i>
Dan,<br>
<br>
I'm definately interested in your dragon book. I personally believe that dragons were remnants of a dinosaur species. I found an interesting remark in Warriors of the Steppe. I believe it was an off hand remark about armor, the person was saying well if you know what a dragon looks like or if you haven't seen one you must certainly have seen a pinecone. (pararphase from memory)<br>
<br>
Dave <p>[url=http://www.freewebs.com/davekufner" target="top]www.freewebs.com/davekufner[/url]</p><i></i>
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Dave,<br>
I fear we are probably about to be whisked away to "off topic" now, but the premise of my book is that dragons had to be something "real" to the ancient peoples for them to have such a profound effect in religion and culture througout the entire world. Yet they could not simply be normal "animals", (like dinosaurs that survived the mass extinction of the Cretaceous) because no fossil evidence has ever been found after that date. Therefore they must be something "more" than mere dumb animals, specifically since most legends give them human-like attributes such as speech and even "great wisdom", and the ability to live thousands of years, or even be "immortal". By accepting another premise, that the "God" of the Judaeo Christian religion is authentic, I then make a rather airtight and even (somewhat) scientifically acceptable case for dragons being real creatures. The reason no dragon bones have ever been found, is because no dragon has ever been killed (just as there are no "angel bones". There is even harmony between the Bible and an "evolutionary creation" requiring millions of years. There is a probable link between dragons and dinosaurs, just as there is between man and the lesser primates. Ultimately, my research has determined that the creatures referred to as "dragons" are in fact, the non-human "servants" of God more specifically called Cherubim, Seraphim and "Destroyers" in the Bible, who serve similar capacities in many other religions as well. Even the word "seraph" from which seraphim is derived, means, in the original Hebrew, "a flying and fiery serpent" (a dragon, in other words). These creatures are never referred to as angels in the Bible, only as non-human-like "creatures", nor are angels ever described as having wings. But now the two have been mixed together into the winged human form that orignally were two specifically different organisms. There is abundant evidence for this in scripture, and even more in the books mysteriously banned from the Bible by the Catholic Church such as Enoch, though well known and generally accepted in Jesus' time.<br>
It probably would have been published by now if it were not for the time consumed in making my move. And now I am living in a place where I might be tarred and feathered for writing something so outrageous (to their minds), in the heart of "Christian fundamentalist country". Their explanation for "dragons", I am told, is that "they were the dinosaurs that survived 'the great flood' because they were on Noah's Ark". Anyway, people who have read some of it think it is very interesting and quite plausible, though extremely controversial to some religious types with closed minds.<br>
Dan <p></p><i></i>
Hi Dan,<br>
<br>
Sorry for the delay about your question about the Portugal expedition.<br>
<br>
We are preparing this expedition until 2006, and every roman / Celtic re-enactment people around the World are welcome!<br>
<br>
At this moment we are start training, have some material and translate our home page ( www.luistanis.org ) to English whit our activities photos (the presents are a nice tribute from several European roman societies who have help us whit images…)<br>
<br>
When we have our translation and more news about this expedition I will post in this Forum and send a contact to every interested people.<br>
<br>
Best salutations to our brothers-in-arms!<br>
<br>
Cetobrigus<br>
<p></p><i></i>
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