Army Ranks

[M.ilionario]

I need to correct you on the point about military leaders being unskilled. During the Imperial period, perhaps. But during the Republic, occasionally there were complete incompetents, but by and large they were experienced at war, it was an annual party. No man of high rank went anywhere without proving himself in battle, and had the scars to prove it. The more single combats and trophies on their walls they had the more influence they could exert.

Please see this part of my last post (edited):

But I want to clarify the situation: I was referring to soldiers, not officers.
Just for those of you who though otherwise....

And another question: those that became officers went into military academy without joining as soldiers, after 'proving' themselves as soldiers or didn't even go to the academy to learn tactics and leadership?

[Jona Lendering]

Use any connections you do have to create introductions for you in letters.

Slightly off-topic: it always surprises me that so many ancient letters are letters of recommendation. Pliny's letter for Suetonius is a case in point, but Cicero, Pliny, Fronto, Sidonius, Synesius - they all were asking favors for their clients, and felt that these letters were interesting, honrable, and could be published.

[Tarbicus]

And another question: those that became officers went into military academy without joining as soldiers, after 'proving' themselves as soldiers or didn't even go to the academy to learn tactics and leadership?

All three, take your pick. It all depended on who, where, when, and why. It can't be defined so narrowly. As for a 'military academy', that could just be martial sports and school studies given to any boy of status during his school years, but for all we know the same could have been given to poorer boys who had formal tutoring (perhaps someone does know here). It is even thought that it may have been centurions if not Aulus Hirtius who wrote the anonymous 'Spanish War' and 'African War', and no doubt the preferred reading material of centurions would have military matters as their main subjects which, in its own way, is studying. The best 'military academy', however, could be being part of an actual legion, especially on campaign.

[Praefectusclassis]

Educated Romans liked to read Frontinus, Polyaenus, Onasander, etc, to teach themselves the ropes by learning from the past. See:
B.Campbell, 'Teach yourself how to be a general', JRS 77 (1987), 13ff.

[hoplite14gr]

Francisco,
Roman Army was more hottly engaged than many modern armies.
If some one was a brave soul who did not want to "kiss up" to "superiors" he could undertake the more brutal option.
In every army there are missions ranging between "impossible" to "suicidal".
Some one eager for promotion could constantly volonteer for them.
Now assuming he stayed alive and one piece and not completly lost his sanity or turned into a drunkard or even aquired "murderous lust" he would certainly get noticed be superiors.
Every "highranker" needs someone who could be trusted to do the "dirtyjob".
Is good to have people like that near you and loyal.
The canditade would promoted alongside his influencial "patron".
Kind regards

[Tarbicus]

Something I missed out was that officers were also expected to take part in training and improve their skills. Even Pompey was training and improving his horse skills during the siege of Petra.

[Matthew Amt]

All of Roman society was based on the system of patronage. It was said that everyone except the Emperor had a patron, and everyone except the guys on the very bottom rung had clients. It would be no different in the army. As a new recruit, you'd be looking for anyone of higher rank to be your "patron", someone to keep track of your prowess and recommend you to higher ranking "rungs" as a good soldier and worthy of promotion. Your patron wouldn't necessarily be a centurion, maybe it was someone below that rank, at least at first. It was a very solidly entrenched "good old boy" system, a way of making connections and moving up. As you move up, you gain clients of your own, men who support you and come to you for recommendations, legal help, monetary aid, etc. But you still have a patron of your own (or more than one?) giving you the same help.

It is also known that the soldiers competed with each other in battle in displays of prowess and courage. The famed Roman discipline was there to keep the troops from completely running berserk in battle. Jon Lendon's book "Soldiers and Ghosts" is THE book to read about that.

There were also a few practical considerations here and there. You weren't likely to get an assignment as a clerk in the principia unless you were reasonably literate. A man with skill in metalworking was a good candidate for a job in the fabrica, and so on. But connections were key.

Valete,

Matthew

[M.ilionario]

Now I'm clarified....thanks Matthew
Btw, have you read my pm?

[Kate Gilliver]

Here's the 'career' of Spurius Ligustinus (Livy 42.34):
"Romans, my name is Spurius Ligustinus of the Crustumina voting tribe, and I am of Sabine origin. My father left me a iugerum of land and the small hut in which I was born and raised and where I still live today. When I first came of age my father married me to his brother’s daughter, who brought with her nothing but her liberty, beauty and a fertility to rival any wealthy house. We have six sons and two daughers, both of whom are married. Four of my sons wear the toga virilis, two the toga praetexta. I became a soldier in the consulship of Publius Sulpicius and Gaius Aurelius (200 BC). For two years I served as a common soldier in the army campaigning in Macedonia against Philip; in the third year (197 BC) Titus Quinctius Flamininus promoted me to centurion of the tenth maniple of hastati on account of my bravery. After the defeat of Philip and the Macedonians we were brought back to Italy and disbanded, but I continued my service as a volunteer and went to Spain with the consul Marcus Porcius (Cato; 195 BC). No other general who lived was a keener observer and better judge of bravery, as those who served with him, and other generals, knew well. This general judged me worthy of promotion to centurion of the first century of hastati. I volunteered for the third time as a soldier in the army which was sent against Antiochus and the Aetolians (191 BC). Manius Acilius appointed me centurion of the first century of principes. When Antiochus had been expelled and the Aetolians defeated we were shipped back to Italy; then twice I served in legions which had been raised for a year’s campaign. After that I served in two campaigns in Spain, first under Fulvius Flaccus (181 BC), then under the Praetor Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus (180 BC). I was one of those whom Flaccus brought back to Rome to appear in his triumph on account of our bravery, and I returned to the province with Tiberius Gracchus at his request. Four times within a few years I held the rank of primus pilus; thirty-four times I have been decorated for my courage by my commander; I have been awarded six Civic Crowns. I have served in the army for 22 campaigns and am more than 50 years old. Even if I had not served my time and my age did not make me exempt from service, I would still be able to provide four soldiers instead of me, Publius Licinius, so it would be right for me to be discharged. But I want you to take what I have said in my cause: as far as anyone who is raising an army judges me fit for military duty I shall seek no excuses. It is for the tribunes to decide what rank I am worthy of: I shall ensure that nobody in the army surpasses me in valour, as I have always done (as my commanders and those who’ve served with me will testify). You, my fellow soldiers, may exercise your right of appeal, but it is only right and proper that, as when you were youths you did nothing contrary to the authority of the magistrates and senate, so now too you should place yourselves under the power of the consuls and senate and consider any rank in which you are to defend the state as an honourable one."

I don't want to go into the circumstances of the speech, but basically Livy's soldier, Spurius Ligustinus, is very likely invented, but nonetheless gives a good idea of what Livy considered to be an illustrious career for a soldier in the 2nd century BC. Spurius starts off as an ordinary soldier but quickly gets promoted because of his bravery - really the only way in the Republic that an ordinary bloke's going to get anywhere in the army. But after that you can see the importance of patronage in his career - his promotions and decorations come courtesy of the consuls and other magistrates he's serving under. Even an ordinary bloke could attract patronage from leading aristrocrats, but patronage isn't a one-way street. The behaviour and actions of the individual promoted will reflect back on the patron, so a patron's probably not going to promote a no-hoper. Thus ability was a key factor in promotion and patronage.

There were no military academies or schools where Romans learned how to be a soldier or officer - some may have practised at weapons, the elite grew up ordering people around. As Jasper says, some learned from textbooks and examples, but most importantly they learned by doing.

[M.ilionario]

Thanks for the reply Kate, a laudes for you and Matthew (given earlier) :wink:

[M.ilionario]

What about entering the praetorian guard?
Of what was it composed of? Veteran soldiers?
If so, could a soldier choose between being an officer in his legion or praetorian in Rome?
Which of these was more prestigious, officer of the legion or praetorian?

Note: When I say praetorian I'm referring to praetorian soldier, not officer. It's quite obvious that being a praetorian officer is better that being a regular one.

[Carlton Bach]

What about entering the praetorian guard?
Of what was it composed of? Veteran soldiers?
If so, could a soldier choose between being an officer in his legion or praetorian in Rome?
Which of these was more prestigious, officer of the legion or praetorian?

Note: When I say praetorian I'm referring to praetorian soldier, not officer. It's quite obvious that being a praetorian officer is better that being a regular one.

AFAIR the Prateorians got some transfers from the legions, but many of them came in as Italian recruits. There appears to have been a degree of string-pulling involved. Praetorians had better pay and service conditions, and some of them were transferred out to the legiuons and auxiliaries for command posts (this is sometimes read as a kind of 'military academy', but I doubt that. More likely, they were men who distinguished themselves where the princeps could see and thus gained promotions that similarly qualified soldiers out in the howling wilderness could not hope to gain as readily).

My personal guess regarding the preference for Italians is twofold - on the one hand, they were to some extent a traditional unit, the last 'real Roman' force, and thus recruits of the same ethnic background could eassily have been preferred. On the other hand, the Praewtorians frequently interacted with the people of Rome, so they needed to spweak their language and share their background. After all, when border troops came to Italy, people noted their 'barbarian' appearance and manners.

[M.ilionario]

Thanks Volken.....Laudes to you :wink:

[Tarbicus]

The Praetorians have a tumultous history, especially concerning recruitment. In the Republic they were formed only at the start of a campaign, asigned to the commander (hence the likely origin of the Praetorian, coming from the commander's house praetorium). By the time Octavian had become Augustus they were housed in Rome in their own fort as a permanent feature, and recruited from Italy. However, Vitellius, in AD69, recruited solely from his German legions, which were then disbanded by Vespasian and solely recruited from Italy again. Once we get to 193 AD Septimius Severus disbanded them once more (they had a tendency to overthrow and appoint Emperors) and very few were recruited from Italy, most coming from the frontier. By the time of Constantius they are history.

You should certainly also read Jenny Cline's extensive article on them on RA.com:
[url:65tb7hab]http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/content/view/67/75/[/url]

[M.ilionario]

Thanks Jim, what you've said has confirmed what I though about that part of the Praetorians