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+--- Thread: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield (/showthread.php?tid=5159)
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - hoplite14gr - 03-27-2006
Check the High Crests for info.
Kind regards
S
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Gaius Decius Aquilius - 04-16-2006
OK...
So I bought two 1/2 inch thick ply sections. One of oak and one of birch. I am going to use Mat Amp's guide on an aspis by extending the center point of each half circle about 6 inches. Easy. I take a sring and pencil and carefully draw a half circle section from each point. This afternoon I drew a cross section and realized the thing would be 40 x 34 inches. I note Comerus's two pics. One is clearly the diameter of an aspis. The other is slightly less that the opposing warrior's artist. (I measured with calipers.) I am not sure the artist had a concept of depth or not. The difference is not really apparent until you measure. I know how to draw circles with string but not an ellipse.
So. Do I:
1. Make the thing 34 x 40?
2. Attempt to narrow it to about 30-31 x 40, using a clever method that you will tell me how to do.
3. Give up and make an aspis, although I really want a Boeotian, knowing I will make uneven ellipses. Note: I also used my wife's checkbook to buy the plywood with and a new laser jigsaw because she was in Virginia visiting her family. Botching the job on top of writing the check would be not a good idea.
LYKAON
(Ralph Izard)
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Anonymous - 04-16-2006
Quote:OK...
So I bought two 1/2 inch thick ply sections. Botching the job on top of writing the check would be not a good idea.
LYKAON
(Ralph Izard)
Wow!
hock: You are BRAVE!To get the ellipse symmetrical, why not make a pattern of one quarter- section on a sheet of paper folded into four? You can draw this section free-hand from points marked for the vertical and horizontal axes. You can establish where to mark these by deciding beforehand the overall length and width. Cut out the quarter pattern and you've got a complete one.
The exact shape is really up to you, given the variety in the depictions.
I hope a) This makes sense. b) It doesn't constitute instructing one's grandmother in the art of egg-sucking. c) It helps.
Paul
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - hoplite14gr - 06-26-2006
This post is to aid my good friend Ralf (LYKAON) in his presentation of Beotian shiled reconstruction.
Ralf´s Comment:
"... Here is the Boetian I am working on. This is as the rings are cut and
glued by extending the center section of Mat Amp's aspis by 7.5 inches. I
will cut the oval notches after the sanding for sharper edges. As it is, it
weighs less than I thought. The front will be covered with black leather and
will have a white Sphinx of Chios device. The edge will be white and have a wave motif. The iron disk below the shield is a plow disk that seems to be the right size for a Macedonian phalangite shield. This will be used as a
forming anvil if I can find the right sized brass/bronze sheet. It is
about 24 inches in diameter. The Miata Speed Edition behind everything is the Melanchitos Mobile for the Nashville event, if it happens...
Ralph..."
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Arthes - 06-27-2006
Just one of those 'thoughts' looking at the cut outs...
the enemy would be very tempted to shove his dory or xiphos (or whatever he/she was using) through those holes....maybe that is the whole point.... :wink:
A quick movement or twist and they are disarmed or at least trapped......
OK...just an idea....!!!
regards
Arthes.....
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Arthes - 06-27-2006
Quote:Arthes:1bkweeyn Wrote:Just one of those 'thoughts' looking at the cut outs...
the enemy would be very tempted to shove his dory or xiphos (or whatever he/she was using) through those holes....maybe that is the whole point.... :wink:
A quick movement or twist and they are disarmed or at least trapped......
OK...just an idea....!!!
regards
Arthes.....
Dont underestimate the shield, if you remember how Achiles fought with this shield, perhaps Ralf can do the same! :lol:
PS: Watch Troy once more! :mrgreen:
--A quick movement or twist and they are disarmed or at least trapped......
lol: Do I have to watch Achilles Pitt again... :? wink: :twisted:
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs - 06-27-2006
Very nice,Ralf.
I do wonder,though, about the edges of the rings.
This was a point that I couldn't understand when
I was contemplating making one of my own.
Do you "router" them so you end up with a smooth,
curved side,or does covering it solve that ?
Just trying to get a better grip on the process in case
I attempt it myself.(got most all of it but the shield.)
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Gaius Decius Aquilius - 06-27-2006
From handling the thing so far, and from depictions, I get the impression that it was used outside the phalanx. By this I man for duels, skirmishes and fighting in broken terrain. That its usage drops off as the phalanx develops may be in indication of its usage. With a vertical grip it seems intended to cover the body more so than an aspis, which in a phalanx is also supposed to cover the person next to you, as you all know. I am just speculating though.
Comerus, yes you can take the Miata for a spin at Nashville. I got it for my mid-life crisis. A red sports car is required for those, you know.
Andy... The next step is sanding. And I mean sanding, and more sanding. Inside and out, so the whole thing is smooth. (See Mat Amp's Hoplite page which i am using as a guide). I have used a hand rasp so far and if I spend days and days with it , it will become smooth. But. Tomorrow I will get a belt sander. In Greece you used your slave to do the sanding. Nowadays you buy a power tool. Once it is sanded then you cut out the oval notches with a scroll saw, and sand these smooth. You can use a router but a saning disc on a power drill works as well. Then you cover the inside with leather and the put on the fittings. This will be the fun part because you get anneal bronze and reposse the pieces. This is why I took two classes at UNM on bronze working. Then you cover the front with heavy leather and do the rim.
This will take all summer, but... It keeps me out of the bars and off the street. Actually I am having fun with this one, because it has not turned into a total disaster yet.
LAKAON
(Ralph Izard)
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Arthes - 06-27-2006
Quote:Dont underestimate the shield, if you remember how Achiles fought with this shield, perhaps Ralf can do the same! :lol:I have just done so.....
PS: Watch Troy once more! :mrgreen:
I noticed that during the battle with Hector, Achilles did what I had mentioned, trapping Hector's dory in the cut out........
Bearing in mind that this was probably made of something like plastic....and weighed far less than the real thing......!
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Anonymous - 06-29-2006
Quote:
This will take all summer, but... It keeps me out of the bars and off the street. Actually I am having fun with this one, because it has not turned into a total disaster yet.
LAKAON
(Ralph Izard)
Looks great, Ralf, thanks for posting the pictures.
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - hoplite14gr - 11-13-2006
Courtesy of Ralf Izard (Gaius Decius Aquilius)
Enjoy
Please go to "Reenactement reconstruction" section
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=12003
for tips and details
Kind regards
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - spyros - 11-13-2006
Indeed, cudos to you Ralph!
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Gaius Decius Aquilius - 11-13-2006
I want to thank Stephanos for posting for me. I have no website. Sephanos has always been kind enough to do things for myself and for others.
I am still under the impression fom the unexpected lighter weight than I expected, that ths design is used for situations outside the phalanx. There is an unexpected flexability I found when I did the side cut outs. Blows may be more easily deflected or absorbed with deliberate defensive movements. This may not be possible in a tight formation like the pahalanx. I still have to worry about the interoir fillings, both the placement and number and type. These seem to vary a bit. Input always welcome.
Thanks again to Hoplite 14gr for posting this for me
LYKAON
(Ralph Izard)
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - hoplite14gr - 11-13-2006
That shield was an "open order" weapon. The phalanx was probably invented to counter this type of warfare.
Based on a reconstruction of the Greek War Meuseum, Archaic warrior probably looked like this:
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/hoplite14gr ... 76420117/2
Kind regards
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Ioannis - 11-13-2006
No pic there Stefane!