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A relief from Rome - Jona Lendering - 01-13-2010
This photo I made in Rome. It shows foreign weapons, shields, helmets, and so on. No doubt it was conquered by the Romans in some northern war. Can anyone offer a date for the weapons? Who may have been the enemy?
Re: A relief from Rome - caiusbeerquitius - 01-13-2010
That´s a tough one.
The swords (and some of the shield forms shields) suggest it is AD /post Augustan
The rest of the equipment is almost impossible to date accurately, IMO (shields, helmet)
By technique and execution, especially with the use of drills for the holes, however, a dating to the late Antonine or to the Severian period is possible, for which also the presence of the dolphin on one of the shields, and the emboosed helmet could speak - not exclusive however, since the technique was used earlier already, see Louvre-Praetorian relief helmets, and dolphins are seen earlier as well (e.g.Mainz pedestals), so are embossed helmets... ^^
For all we know the Roman art was very archaizing, so the best method is to go by style & execution, anyway.
Re: A relief from Rome - Jona Lendering - 01-16-2010
Someone else any idea?
Re: A relief from Rome - Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-16-2010
Did they ever bulid monuments for the civil wars? Almost look like roman weapons, such as the gladius pommels and the helmet...
Re: A relief from Rome - Virilis - 01-16-2010
To my unscientific eye the equipment has a "dacian flavour" :?: ...
Re: A relief from Rome - Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-16-2010
Some of it yes, maybe? But that broken shield on the left looks, to my unscientific eye, like a Roman scutum.....
Re: A relief from Rome - MeinPanzer - 01-16-2010
The main work to consult in matters of Roman weapons friezes is Eugenio Polito, Fulgentibus Armis. Introduzione allo studio dei fregi d’armi antichi, (“L’Erma” di Bretschneider: Rome, 1998). Consulting this work, I came across a frieze which is very similar in nature and style to this one, which is from the funerary altar of Falerii Novi, now at Potsdam. It features copious use of drill holes like this example, and just as Christian suggests, it is dated to late Antonine or Severan times.
From late Republican times weapons friezes appear which feature an odd mixture of enemy, Roman, fantastical, archaic, and even gladiatorial arms, and this is a late example of just such a frieze. Note the Roman arms, like the gladius, and the both archaic and Roman popanum shield, both of which are common in such friezes. Highly stylized Hellenistic helmets, double-headed axes, and Amazonian peltae are all normally found in such scenes as well, which of course makes it very difficult to discern the real arms from the fantastical, let alone the stylized from the realistic, the barbarian from the Roman, and the old from the new!
Re: A relief from Rome - Jona Lendering - 01-16-2010
I have deliberately not told the place where this relief was found, because that would probably have influenced your judgment. However, you confirm the doubts that I have about this relief, which is supposed to be Flavian, and was found in the imperial audience hall at the Palatine.
I suspected there was something wrong with it, but could not really express what it was that intrigued me; there is some consensus here that it is Antonine, and some of you mention the drilled holes as one criterium, and point at the more or less ahistorical nature of the arms, which again points to the second century, which saw Archaism as a literary style.
Thanks all!
Re: A relief from Rome - Paullus Scipio - 01-17-2010
Your attempt to disguise the origin of this piece was not as successful as you may have hoped, Jona ! :wink:
Anyone clicking on the photo could see the title:
"Rome_Palatine_Domus_Flavia_Aula_Regia_frieze2".........
I would agree with the consensus here that it is most likely late Antonine or later, judging by style and subject matter. Of course the Palatine Imperial palace was added to, and modified over time -possibly by every Emperor who occupied it - so that it would not be unusual to find such a piece in that location.
Re: A relief from Rome - Jona Lendering - 01-17-2010
Quote:Of course the Palatine Imperial palace was added to, and modified over time - possibly by every Emperor who occupied it - so that it would not be unusual to find such a piece in that location.Exactly!