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+--- Thread: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield (/showthread.php?tid=5159)
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Robert Vermaat - 01-14-2007
Quote:OK. Had to delete my pics off the subarmalis thread
Jasper will have no problem enlarging your account!
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Chris B - 01-14-2007
Yeah that would be nice. 1 MB is pretty tiny. Well it's Sunday (1-14-2007) here and the shield is covered, back side of the bowel is painted black, Porpax and other grip attached, and I plan on painting two coats of white on the front side tonight. WAY ahead of schedule now. Actually think it will end up being a 9 day build.
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-15-2007
Cheers Stephanos! Some times you hear all sorts of theories thrown about on documentaries, so it is hard to keep up to date and know what to believe. One I saw even doubted the overhand method, even though, I think it is well depicted in ancient art?
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Anonymous - 01-15-2007
Well done, Chris!
Rigidity and resistance aren't always the same thing; this shield could perhaps absorb a lot of shock precisely because it's flexible, on the same principle as a tempered steel blade or a wall of logs, packed with earth, which resists through flexion. Another thought - if you can knock shields out that fast, why worry about getting them damaged? :twisted:
As to the speargrip question, I have a novel idea which I will demonstrate when I have sufficient combatants.
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Chris B - 01-15-2007
Yeah. I agree with that Paul. That's why I used the analogy of the Chinese view on weapons as opposed to the Japanese. Two totally different thoughts. I think the shield would have been effective with a bronze facing. The angles of the shield would cause deflection more than absorption anyways. One thing I have done recently is try various weapons against various thicknesses of wood (covered and uncovered, curved and flat) and it is a pretty quick study to realize that you would NEVER want to brace and absorb any type of blow from a spear, axe, or heavy weapon. I put spear after spear right through the wood with it braced regardless of make-up. My favorite spear was one made by cold steel (Asagai). I did not buy that one for historical accuracy, simply to play with so I would not feel bad for breaking it
It hasn't even dulled though. I think the shield would have been good with historical production methods. Now the notorious ring method leaves the shield a little too weak for my tastes, but it will look nice on the wall and can be used with a little care. I don't have anywhere near the skill to face it in brass or bronze with all those curves. It would be quite a bit more difficuly than an Aspis simply because of its shape. Oh, and on the making them that fast comment, it is fast in terms of days, but still a heck of a lot of work in terms of hours. I don't really "love" standing with a sander, hunched over a shield for hours on end so I definately don't want to break this one. Now if it was one of my heaters.....let the games begin.
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - hoplite14gr - 01-15-2007
I belive that the thread "Othismos true nature" give insight to ancient spear fighting.
Kind regards
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Anonymous - 01-16-2007
Quote: Now the notorious ring method leaves the shield a little too weak for my tastes,
Did you dowel- or biscuit-joint one ring to another? I don't, but my friends do. Even so, we tend to think in terms of getting special shields for combat, maybe those aluminium ones from RLQM.
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Chris B - 01-16-2007
Paul, even with dowling the rings, using that method leaves the Boeotian weaker than the Aspis. Think about this, the thinnest part of the shield (maybe a half inch at best) is the only thing holding the two heavier halves together. The rim is what makes the Aspis stronger because all the weight and force is distributed towards the outside circumference of the shield. If it was covered in Bronze, I think it would be a bit stronger, but it would NEVER be as strong as leaving the rim completely intact (can't beat physics). As for the Roman Legion Quarter Master shields.....I don't think they make Boeotian shields. I saw the metal Aspis. I most definately think it would be stronger for simulated combat than a wooden core, hide covered shield, but the Aspis is quite a bit stronger than the Boeotian using the ring method. I think it would hold up ok. I personally would rather have a metal version that I would not mind getting dinged and scratched after spending hours and hours making this one as perfect as possible. On the shield in progress.....I have finished the face completely and it looks good. I only have the back rim to paint now. It will probably take 48 more hours to be complete as the back of the rim will be two colors, and I have to wait for them to dry.
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Chris B - 01-16-2007
OK. Here is the first teaser picture with the finished goods to come in about 48 hours. I still need to let the white coat on the back of the rim dry, paint the stripes in black, and then just perform a few touchups to get it to my standards. Here is the facing of the shield.
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - spyros - 01-17-2007
Well done Chris
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Anonymous - 01-17-2007
Beautiful artwork, Chris.
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Praefectusclassis - 01-17-2007
Uhmm, Chris, I will indeed be happy to enlarge your account, but you do have to ask. I do sometimes miss a post, you see.:wink:
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - hoplite14gr - 01-17-2007
Well well!
A DYMAN from the Geronthrae Mora :lol:
Nicely done Chris
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Chris B - 01-17-2007
Thanks for the support. It ended up being a 9 day build, but several of the days were non-stop work. The paint job took A LOT longer than expected due to the detail. The back side rim is drying up as we speak so I will post completed pics tomorrow night.
Re: Boeotian/Dipylon Shield - Chris B - 01-18-2007
OK. Here is the finished product. After experimenting, I decided to forgo the two ropes running behind the porpax as many vases did not depict such ropes, and they seem unnecessary to me. Almost jokingly, but in response to the "Brad Pitt" shield spinning. To carry the shield at one's side, the porpax and grip hang towards the closest point to the ground, but to bring it to the front of the body and into a defensive position, there is only one way to do it. You have to turn the forearm upwards to bring the shield to bear, hence, creating a 180 degree spin to it. Troy still had a lot of stupid Hollywood ideas added to it but the spin may have actually occurred due to it being the only way to bring it from side to front (if they in fact used this type of grip and not a center grip). Just my additional two cents playing with my new shield. Oh, and I hope they do 300 justice and don't make another horrible Alexanderish, crappy movie.
(Pictures removed because my bandwidth for allowed imaged exceeded)