Did Romans wear Corinthian style helmets too?

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

Ave,

This particular fresco, from the ruins of Pompeii (circa during or pre the reign of Nero), has always looked to me like a Corinthian style helmet tilted up… so it rested on the soldiers head…. thus exposing his face. There are a few examples of this style helmet in various frescos from Pompeii, this is the most clear.



Until now I really haven’t seen any other evidence of this but, here’s an ancient sculpture which appears to show what the fresco is showing…. a Corinthian style helmet tilted up. Unfortunately, djelloulmarbrook does not note if this is a Roman or Greek statue but, it is worn in the same style as the Pompeii fresco above. The statue, I believe, is in the city of Piraeus, which is in Greece.




Also, this image of Emperor Emperor Antoninus Pius’ statue show a Corinthian style helmet.




Does anyone else have any evidence of Roman’s with Corinthian style helmets?

I would also presume that the fresco ‘could’ be showing a scene of a Greek Warrior returning from battle.

[Marcus Mummius]

Early roman hoplites could have worn a Corinthian helmet I think, but I don't know much about this period.

Some of the helmets you posted could be Appulo-Corinthian helmets instead of Corinthians I think.

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

Ave,

The the helmets you posted could be Appulo-Corinthian helmets instead of Corinthians I think.

Could you elaborate on the “Appulo-Corinthianâ€

[caiusbeerquitius]

Look here:
www.freewebtown.com/italica/italic_military/general_italic/armor/helmets/apulocor.html

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

Ave,

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... it's Apulo-Corinthian with one "P" not two, that's why when I googled it, I didn't find any results! :roll:

Okay... so the helmet is not actually tilted up but instead worn like a small cap, it never actually tilts down at all... is that correct?

BTW: this could be a fun project for Recreation!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Yes, exactly!

The one with the crest in your first post I believe is supposed to be Athena!

Also, to me in the painting, I can see a cheek piece, but it could be my eyes!

The chap with the beard looks like a copy of Pericles! Not the nude guy, I believe he is a Roman!

ARMAE offer a version of this helmet on their site!

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

ARMAE offers a version of this helmet on their site!

Naaaaaaaaaaa, far too much more fun trying to make it!!! :wink:

So I would also presume that the statue of Emperor Emperor Antoninus Pius is showing this older, Roman Republic style helmet too?

[Marcus Mummius]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... it's Apulo-Corinthian with one "P" not two, that's why when I googled it, I didn't find any results! Rolling Eyes

I bow my head in shame... Sorry for the trouble I caused you by misspelling it Anthony... :oops: :oops:

I have this helmet made by a french armourer and bought from Armae:





The helmet is worn on your head indeed. I love this helmettype

Vale,

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

ARMAE offer a version of this helmet on their site!

Naaaaaaaaaaa, far too much more fun trying to make it!!! :wink:

So I would also presume that the statue of Emperor Emperor Antoninus Pius is showing this older, Roman Republic style helmet too?

Acytually, to me it looks like a corinthian, but I am probably wrong. Unless it was done for artistic sake. They did like to affect a Hellenistic look!

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

I bow my head in shame... Sorry for the trouble I caused you by misspelling it Anthony

Rise Marcus, rise... Apology accepted… may I offer you a half talent of gold in good faith, so as to ease any tension between our two houses?

[Marcus Mummius]

I bow my head in shame... Sorry for the trouble I caused you by misspelling it Anthony

Rise Marcus, rise... Apology accepted… may I offer you a half talent of gold in good faith, so as to ease any tension between our two houses?

Thanks :wink:

Mmm I smell a bussiness opportunity. It appears that I can make good money by misspelling things

[L C Cinna]

There are different versions.

The picture of Athena and the strategos you posted are Corinthians. They are depicted like this in sculpture because otherwise you wouldn'T see the face, obviously. The helmet on the statue of the emperor is a Corinthian as well, but that doesn't mean that it was still in use, it's a style feature.

The one on the 1st pic is probably Apulo-Corinthian as mentioned before. This type was mainly used and developed in Italy. The Corinthian features are a decoration, like the eyebrows on the gallic helmets. There are several finds of this helmet in Italy, so the Romans probably used it as well. Usually dates to the 5th,4th and early 3rd century BCE if memory serves me right.

[Paullus Scipio]

A couple of brief points :-
The Pompeii fresco shows a popular subject,' Mars and Venus' hence the depiction on the God of what was ( by the !st century B.C. ) an 'antique helmet'
For the earlier use of the 'debased corinthian/Etrusco-Corinthian/Apulo- Corinthian' ( it has many names) in the Roman republic, see Connolly "Roman Army", "Greece and Rome at War" or Warry "Warfare in the Classical World"
For Roman use see e.g. Altar of Domitius Ahenobarbus

[Caratacus]

There are perpetual problems with using sculpture as a reliable source for military hardware. It's a question of interpretation. The sculptor may never have seen one of these things, for one thing. For another, he may have a different 'agenda'. It's not a problem confined to the ancient world either; there is a statue of one of the Stuart kings (Charles or James 1st, can't remember which) outside the National Gallery in London wearing a muscle cuirass. It's so small that if it were possible to get the man inside it, he would never be able to breathe!

If you look at Trajan's column, the first thing that strikes you is that the Roman helmets are (a) way too small and (b) many of them have a ring on top! The second thing is that the shields are far too small (they barely reach the knees, let alone the mid-calf). The sculptor is trying to show the man behind the equipment - and it's a popular idea that the actual equipment is being used as a shorthand way of identifying particular groups of people or individuals - so lorica segmentata tells us (and the Romans it was made for) that "these are the citizen soldiers". To my knowledge, no example of a Roman helmet has been recovered where there is a ring on top! So, where did that one come from?

In many cases, sculptural representations of helmets, even Corinthian ones, are too small. If the helmet was meant to be pulled down over the face (as Greek red/black vase art certainly suggests), then the example shown above (Athena) is far too small for the purpose. I printed it out and used a ruler to measure it - the poor woman would have had her nose squashed all over her face!! The shape of the Apulo-Corinthian type, however, suggests that it was not meant to be worn in this way, but rather as a cap on top of the head.

I have information on dozens of Apulo-Corinthian helmets, as well as the Corinthian type and the former have a distinctly different profile, being much wider in relation to their height, clearly pointing to a different mode of wear.

Caratacus
(Mike Thomas)

[Tarbicus]

then the example shown above (Athena) is far too small for the purpose.

Mike, did you take into account her hair would add to the depth of her head? I only ask because I bought a super-cheap corinthian and thought the same. It seemed so small I didn't even bother trying it on for a couple of days. But when I did I was flabbergasted when it slid on with ease (the trick is to pivot-slide it on from the back of the skull) and fits absolutely perfectly. In fact, I'd say it's the most comfortable helmet I've ever worn, with padding on top of my head and an arming cap. It needs to be 'apparently' small, otherwise you have no peripheral vision, the eye holes being too far away from your eyes otherwise. As it is, my peripheral vision is excellent, the helmet is secure, and it can also be balanced on top of my head as seen on the statue of Athena.

Honestly, I thought "No way I'm cracking my skull putting that thing on." when I first opened the box.