08-31-2007, 08:39 AM
Thanks for the additional input. I will try to give my perspective as a newcomer on the points raised.
Lucius:
I did know when I bought the cingulum that the plates were based on 1st C English finds. But I had the chance to buy it cheaply and thought these robust parts could have been passed down and lasted to mid 2nd C.
However from a more practical point of wearing this belt today these thick cast plates do make it very heavy. Here is a photo of an attractive enamelled belt plate from the Newstead finds which would certainly be my ideal choice.
In addition I had to replace the damaged apron leather on my cingulum and took the opportunity to shorten it as I understand there was a reduction in apron length in the 2nd C
![[Image: newsteadbeltplate.JPG]](http://uk.geocities.com/ianjdwn@btinternet.com/photos/newsteadbeltplate.JPG)
Crispvs:
Thanks for your insight into using the Guttman with a Newstead and the narrow time frame you think they could have been in used in combination. That was one of my main concerns to keep it 2nd C at least.
I was surprised to hear that there is a scarcity of evidence for pugio use mid 2nd C. Initially I did look through my copy of A Roman Frontier Post and its People regarding the Newstead finds and found this photo showing what I thought was a pugio blade. In the book its catalogued by Curle as a dagger or a knife.
![[Image: newsteadblades.JPG]](http://uk.geocities.com/ianjdwn@btinternet.com/photos/newsteadblades.JPG)
At the time I did not consider non pugio use with armour to be an issue in a 2nd C context. However now I see from your link that there is a possibility that this Newstead blade is a knife rather than a pugio. The tang is certainly long although there appears to be a slight narrowing of the blade after the hilt. Has this blade now definitely been determined as being a knife? From the practical point of view of wearing this Newstead kit today I can see not having to wear a pugio would again be a weight saving.
Flavius:
From my limited knowledge I too have difficulty in assimilating the concept of not wearing a pugio with armour in the 2nd C. I certainly would like to hear more evidence of 2nd C pugio use if you think you know where to find it.
Lucius:
I did know when I bought the cingulum that the plates were based on 1st C English finds. But I had the chance to buy it cheaply and thought these robust parts could have been passed down and lasted to mid 2nd C.
However from a more practical point of wearing this belt today these thick cast plates do make it very heavy. Here is a photo of an attractive enamelled belt plate from the Newstead finds which would certainly be my ideal choice.
In addition I had to replace the damaged apron leather on my cingulum and took the opportunity to shorten it as I understand there was a reduction in apron length in the 2nd C
Crispvs:
Thanks for your insight into using the Guttman with a Newstead and the narrow time frame you think they could have been in used in combination. That was one of my main concerns to keep it 2nd C at least.
I was surprised to hear that there is a scarcity of evidence for pugio use mid 2nd C. Initially I did look through my copy of A Roman Frontier Post and its People regarding the Newstead finds and found this photo showing what I thought was a pugio blade. In the book its catalogued by Curle as a dagger or a knife.
At the time I did not consider non pugio use with armour to be an issue in a 2nd C context. However now I see from your link that there is a possibility that this Newstead blade is a knife rather than a pugio. The tang is certainly long although there appears to be a slight narrowing of the blade after the hilt. Has this blade now definitely been determined as being a knife? From the practical point of view of wearing this Newstead kit today I can see not having to wear a pugio would again be a weight saving.
Flavius:
From my limited knowledge I too have difficulty in assimilating the concept of not wearing a pugio with armour in the 2nd C. I certainly would like to hear more evidence of 2nd C pugio use if you think you know where to find it.
Fabius Liberalis
(Ian Watson)
(Ian Watson)