Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The Whole North Into Gaul
Thanks Michael.

I"m going to use a lot of Maenchen-Helfen's more recent work On the World of the Huns as well as Heather's works on the Huns, as EA Thompson, although he has some good theories, is outdated.

Reading Maenchen-Helfen, I was thinking about the attempts to retake Africa, and the figures of income from the loss of Africa. Although at first it seems to hit rather hard, you have to account for the fact that the Empire no longer needed to fund an army to defend Africa, so that covers part of the troops cut. Doing the Math 40,000 seems about right at the maximum of troops cut, including the African army (which was decimated and probably combined into the Gallic and Praesental armies to make up for understrength units).

What bugs me is the lack of a navy for the West. In 458 Ricimer defeated a fleet of Vandal pirates off the coast of Corsica. It's reported that Aetius' general Marcellinus had a fleet at Salona. The Notitia, which was updated several times between 395 and 420, records several navies.

I'm wondering if Aetius at some point in the 430's or 440's, either gave the support and maintinence an existing navy needed, or built/bought a small fleet to counter vandal piracy. Thoughts? It would explain where the ships in 458 came from.
Reply


Messages In This Thread
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 05-25-2013, 03:28 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by M. Demetrius - 05-26-2013, 12:18 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by D B Campbell - 05-26-2013, 01:11 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Eleatic Guest - 05-26-2013, 03:36 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 05-26-2013, 05:21 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Diocle - 05-27-2013, 03:02 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 05-27-2013, 10:14 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 05-28-2013, 05:04 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Eleatic Guest - 05-28-2013, 11:23 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Epictetus - 05-29-2013, 04:11 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by M. Demetrius - 05-29-2013, 10:18 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 05-29-2013, 01:58 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by M. Demetrius - 05-29-2013, 02:16 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 05-29-2013, 02:36 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 05-30-2013, 05:41 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Diocle - 05-30-2013, 08:34 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Macedon - 05-30-2013, 08:59 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Epictetus - 05-31-2013, 04:26 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 06-22-2013, 06:28 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Lyceum - 06-23-2013, 12:17 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 07-19-2013, 05:09 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Macedon - 07-19-2013, 10:34 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 07-20-2013, 06:38 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Macedon - 07-20-2013, 07:18 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Nathan Ross - 07-20-2013, 07:33 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Renatus - 07-21-2013, 12:06 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Longovicium - 07-21-2013, 01:44 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 07-21-2013, 05:37 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 07-21-2013, 08:13 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 08-12-2013, 06:41 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Macedon - 08-12-2013, 08:18 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 08-12-2013, 08:22 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by M. Demetrius - 08-12-2013, 09:10 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 08-12-2013, 09:14 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Macedon - 08-12-2013, 09:24 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 08-12-2013, 09:58 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Thomas V. - 08-13-2013, 12:35 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 08-31-2013, 12:50 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 08-31-2013, 10:46 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 09-05-2013, 02:34 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 09-05-2013, 07:23 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Epictetus - 09-06-2013, 07:20 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Alanus - 09-07-2013, 10:43 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Epictetus - 09-07-2013, 01:03 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Nathan Ross - 09-07-2013, 03:28 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 09-07-2013, 04:49 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 09-10-2013, 12:28 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Epictetus - 09-10-2013, 12:27 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 09-10-2013, 03:33 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 09-21-2013, 09:36 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-09-2013, 12:14 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-09-2013, 12:17 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-11-2013, 12:53 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Michael Kerr - 10-11-2013, 02:16 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Epictetus - 10-11-2013, 04:09 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Renatus - 10-11-2013, 06:35 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-11-2013, 09:35 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Renatus - 10-11-2013, 09:42 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-12-2013, 12:21 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Renatus - 10-12-2013, 07:02 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-12-2013, 10:05 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Renatus - 10-12-2013, 02:37 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-12-2013, 10:53 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-14-2013, 10:49 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Michael Kerr - 10-15-2013, 04:07 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-15-2013, 10:48 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Robert Vermaat - 10-15-2013, 01:24 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-15-2013, 08:50 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Renatus - 10-16-2013, 04:18 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-16-2013, 05:51 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Renatus - 10-16-2013, 08:24 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-16-2013, 08:57 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-16-2013, 09:13 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-17-2013, 12:03 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Renatus - 10-17-2013, 04:20 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-17-2013, 05:02 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-20-2013, 11:01 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Michael Kerr - 10-21-2013, 03:25 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-21-2013, 10:50 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by sonic - 10-21-2013, 01:28 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-21-2013, 02:24 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 10-21-2013, 02:53 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Michael Kerr - 10-27-2013, 11:39 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Michael Kerr - 11-01-2013, 02:42 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 11-01-2013, 03:36 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Eleatic Guest - 11-02-2013, 10:56 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 11-03-2013, 02:57 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Michael Kerr - 11-03-2013, 03:58 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 11-03-2013, 04:31 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 11-26-2013, 04:29 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-09-2014, 09:13 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by jkmol - 01-09-2014, 11:03 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-09-2014, 11:28 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-10-2014, 12:07 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Michael Kerr - 01-10-2014, 03:04 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Renatus - 01-10-2014, 07:49 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-10-2014, 11:49 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Athena Areias - 01-10-2014, 12:08 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-10-2014, 04:03 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-10-2014, 09:09 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-11-2014, 01:15 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Epictetus - 01-11-2014, 03:55 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Eleatic Guest - 01-11-2014, 03:58 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Thomas V. - 01-11-2014, 08:33 AM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by D B Campbell - 01-11-2014, 01:11 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-11-2014, 01:18 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Renatus - 01-11-2014, 01:48 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-11-2014, 02:26 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Thomas V. - 01-11-2014, 02:48 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Thomas V. - 01-11-2014, 02:49 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-11-2014, 03:01 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Thomas V. - 01-11-2014, 03:26 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-11-2014, 03:35 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-11-2014, 04:31 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Renatus - 01-11-2014, 05:44 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-11-2014, 06:21 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-11-2014, 08:38 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Renatus - 01-11-2014, 10:11 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-11-2014, 10:16 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Renatus - 01-11-2014, 10:29 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-11-2014, 10:33 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Michael Kerr - 01-12-2014, 02:40 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-12-2014, 09:16 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Michael Kerr - 01-12-2014, 10:13 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-13-2014, 12:03 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-13-2014, 12:11 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-15-2014, 01:01 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Renatus - 01-15-2014, 12:33 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-15-2014, 01:09 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Renatus - 01-15-2014, 10:14 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-15-2014, 11:03 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Tim - 01-15-2014, 11:20 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-15-2014, 11:30 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Tim - 01-16-2014, 03:44 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Michael Kerr - 01-16-2014, 11:28 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-17-2014, 12:39 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-18-2014, 03:16 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Renatus - 01-18-2014, 03:34 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-18-2014, 04:32 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Michael Kerr - 01-18-2014, 10:18 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-18-2014, 11:11 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Michael Kerr - 01-23-2014, 01:56 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-23-2014, 04:45 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Michael Kerr - 01-27-2014, 02:45 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-27-2014, 03:06 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-28-2014, 05:22 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Renatus - 01-28-2014, 06:04 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-28-2014, 06:06 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 02-01-2014, 05:13 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 02-06-2014, 06:44 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Tim - 02-06-2014, 08:41 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 02-06-2014, 11:43 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Michael Kerr - 02-07-2014, 01:17 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 02-07-2014, 01:31 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 02-13-2014, 12:06 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Nathan Ross - 02-13-2014, 12:23 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 02-13-2014, 12:26 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 05-04-2014, 05:24 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Michael Kerr - 05-05-2014, 02:06 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 05-05-2014, 02:17 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Robert Vermaat - 05-06-2014, 09:46 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 08-27-2014, 12:04 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 06-20-2015, 04:38 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Justin I - 06-20-2015, 06:28 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 06-20-2015, 07:42 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Justin I - 06-24-2015, 04:49 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 06-24-2015, 06:32 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Robert Vermaat - 06-25-2015, 07:35 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 06-25-2015, 11:34 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 08-22-2015, 09:55 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Michael Kerr - 08-23-2015, 06:54 PM
The Journal of Late Antiquity - by Flavivs Aetivs - 08-23-2015, 08:05 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Michael Kerr - 08-26-2015, 06:27 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 08-26-2015, 11:35 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Michael Kerr - 08-27-2015, 01:18 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Luka Borščak - 09-02-2015, 05:44 PM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Michael Kerr - 09-03-2015, 02:25 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Luka Borščak - 09-03-2015, 08:34 AM
The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 09-03-2015, 11:18 AM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 02-29-2016, 02:51 AM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 05-15-2016, 05:12 PM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Justin Swanton - 05-25-2016, 07:08 PM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Justin I - 05-26-2016, 11:52 PM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 05-26-2016, 01:53 AM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Justin Swanton - 05-26-2016, 05:28 AM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Michael Kerr - 05-26-2016, 02:20 AM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 05-27-2016, 02:04 AM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Justin I - 05-28-2016, 04:23 AM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 05-28-2016, 02:40 PM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Justin Swanton - 05-30-2016, 04:11 PM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Robert Vermaat - 05-31-2016, 10:34 AM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 05-30-2016, 05:38 PM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Robert Vermaat - 05-31-2016, 11:52 AM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 05-31-2016, 12:14 PM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Justin Swanton - 06-01-2016, 12:19 AM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 06-01-2016, 01:34 AM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Robert Vermaat - 06-01-2016, 11:45 AM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Justin Swanton - 06-01-2016, 01:45 PM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 06-01-2016, 06:59 PM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Justin Swanton - 06-01-2016, 07:52 PM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 06-01-2016, 09:33 PM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Justin Swanton - 06-02-2016, 05:41 AM
RE: The Whole North Into Gaul - by Flavivs Aetivs - 06-02-2016, 03:00 PM

Forum Jump: