05-16-2014, 05:22 PM
Back to Evan,
I read your PDF and you've done an admirable job at sorting out the mess. Congratulations.
mile:
However, I did find one flaw. Under the heading of The Order of Battle, you said, "... while the Huns faced the Alans under Sambida in the center." As far as I know, Sambida was a "chieftain" of the Alans in southeastern France. The Alanic "king" who fought at Orleans and then the Catalaunian Plains was Sangiban.
The Alans who fought at the Battle of Chalons were from the Orleans-Loire area. They were Arian Christians who stopped short in 407, leaving the other Alans and the Vandals to continue south into Spain. Possibly their leader was Goar/Echocar/Eothar, three names yet all the same king. We know that Bishop Germanus halted him when his Alans were ordered to crush a minor rebellion in Armorica. Since Germanus died at Rome in 448, this Goar was still living just prior to that time. His replacement was Sangiban, perhaps from the same family/ruling-class.
Sangiban was first recorded by Jordanes. And while he managed to "muddle" history, Jordanes was a stickler for nomens, anal-retentively so. In ancient times, a person's name was important. Unfortunately, we have no other primary sources to call upon. In "modern" times Sangiban is credited correctly in 1748 by Sale. In 1788, Edward Gibbon calls the Alanic king at Chalons by the tag of "Sangiban." Same man, same name, as in Jordanes. Gibbon was followed by Herbert (1838), Greenwood (1836), Breed (1885), White (1965), Montgomery (1968), Frassetto (2003 and 2013), Sidnell (2007), Cummins (2008), Tucker (2010), Reynolds (2011), and the list could go on and on.
How a "chieftain" from southern France became the "king" of the Orleans Alans remains rather inexplicable. There are incorrect sources out there, perhaps some authors assuming that "Sambida" sounded a lot like "Sangiban." Actually, it doesn't. :dizzy:
To me it's very important to give a man his due by using his correct name and personage, especially to the leader of a contingent that turned the tide at Chalons. I personally have faith in both Jordanes and Gibbon on this point. Sangiban was Sangiban, and Sambida was the other guy. :whistle:
I read your PDF and you've done an admirable job at sorting out the mess. Congratulations.
mile: However, I did find one flaw. Under the heading of The Order of Battle, you said, "... while the Huns faced the Alans under Sambida in the center." As far as I know, Sambida was a "chieftain" of the Alans in southeastern France. The Alanic "king" who fought at Orleans and then the Catalaunian Plains was Sangiban.
The Alans who fought at the Battle of Chalons were from the Orleans-Loire area. They were Arian Christians who stopped short in 407, leaving the other Alans and the Vandals to continue south into Spain. Possibly their leader was Goar/Echocar/Eothar, three names yet all the same king. We know that Bishop Germanus halted him when his Alans were ordered to crush a minor rebellion in Armorica. Since Germanus died at Rome in 448, this Goar was still living just prior to that time. His replacement was Sangiban, perhaps from the same family/ruling-class.
Sangiban was first recorded by Jordanes. And while he managed to "muddle" history, Jordanes was a stickler for nomens, anal-retentively so. In ancient times, a person's name was important. Unfortunately, we have no other primary sources to call upon. In "modern" times Sangiban is credited correctly in 1748 by Sale. In 1788, Edward Gibbon calls the Alanic king at Chalons by the tag of "Sangiban." Same man, same name, as in Jordanes. Gibbon was followed by Herbert (1838), Greenwood (1836), Breed (1885), White (1965), Montgomery (1968), Frassetto (2003 and 2013), Sidnell (2007), Cummins (2008), Tucker (2010), Reynolds (2011), and the list could go on and on.
How a "chieftain" from southern France became the "king" of the Orleans Alans remains rather inexplicable. There are incorrect sources out there, perhaps some authors assuming that "Sambida" sounded a lot like "Sangiban." Actually, it doesn't. :dizzy:
To me it's very important to give a man his due by using his correct name and personage, especially to the leader of a contingent that turned the tide at Chalons. I personally have faith in both Jordanes and Gibbon on this point. Sangiban was Sangiban, and Sambida was the other guy. :whistle:
Alan J. Campbell
member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians
Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)
"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians
Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)
"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
