(11-25-2016, 09:02 PM)Densus Wrote: Bryan, you can tell me that things I have seen and done on many occasions won't work until you are blue in the face and I am not going to believe you, because I have seen them and done them.
USMC Platoons of up to 50 people each I have trained heard words of command from the rear just fine, over the top of vehicle engines, role players chanting and screaming, missiles hitting their shields etc. Incidentally not once have the Marines ever questioned it when we tell them team and platoon commanders are going to be in the rear.
Our shield men in the front rank also do the vast majority of the fighting, especially when we move into open order. I have never seen an incident where the front rank became chaos because there wasn't a commander in the front rank. A commander that most of them wouldn't have been able to see any way.
I guess since you know better than me about the USMC then you were a Marine, yes? If so, please provide dates for when you were at MCRD and which one. What platoon were you in? (I was 1084). What Victor unit were you assigned in the Fleet? (I was in 3/3) What deployments and training exercises did you attend, and where? (I did two UDPs to Okinawa with dozens of small exercises and training events all over the Pacific Rim from Korea to Australia)
If you weren't a US Marine, if you weren't an Infantry Marine, specifically an 0311 who served as rifleman to fire team leader, then maybe you are seriously outside your lane when discussing modern combat tactics with someone who was a Marine, who was an 0311, and served as a rifleman through TL. Who actually fought in combat as an infantry team leader and squad leader in the US Army. Who knows first hand that if you want anybody to do what you tell them to do it means close supervision, sharing danger and discomfort, and leading by example.
Quote:When you tell a unit to push right they don't break down into anything, and nothing I said would indicate they did, all they do is alter their line of advance slightly to arrive at a point to the right of where they would have arrived if they moved straight forward.
So Push Right is the official command that also means Push Forward, But Also Slightly Right? Do you know an official command name for that maneuver already exists?
Right/Left Oblique
So let's make believe you're going to march a formation of men at an angle, Right Oblique.
In what universe is there no guidon, no standard, no unit pendent in the front showing which way the formation is supposed to move? THE UNIT STANDARD HAS TO BE IN THE FRONT SO THE SOLDIERS CAN SEE WHERE THEY NEED TO MOVE TO.
BTW, whose duty was it to guard the standard bearer and tell him where to go? Its the duty of the unit leader to provide protection and guidance to the unit's standard bearer. Who was the century's leader? The Centurion. Standard in front, centurion in front. Standard in rear, centurion in rear. Standard in rear, nobody is moving forward.
Basically, if you're issuing drill commands from the rear, whether it play fighting or riot training, you're doing it wrong, so sayeth about 2,000 years of written drill methods. I can't really think of anyone who took the lowest small unit leader of their organization and made them serve in the rear, not any that had any success. However they are organized, formed, there has to be someone leading from the front, which is basically the whole concept and conflict of command and control since the dawn of time. Unit commanders must share dangers and lead from the front, which means increased casualties (even now leaders get hit more than non-rates), but they cant throw their lives away without sacrificing unit cohesiveness and command and control, so its a precarious balancing act of removing oneself from the front, but only as long as there are subordinates with true authority who can do it in your stead in the front.
Who was the century's small unit leader who stood in the fore and directed the men by leading by example from the front? If it wasn't the century, who did it?
Quote:when we tell them team and platoon commanders are going to be in the rear
Also what is the context of this statement? What were you teaching, to what unit, where, when, why?
