03-06-2002, 09:36 AM
I tend to agree with Dan's considerations and think that Karkriese was a minor battle of the general uprising of Germany.<br>
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I not sure about the argument concerning useless items and whether they would have been abandoned earlier by the Romans in the real Clades Variana. There are many instances of military and civilian history and controlled psychological tests that document that the perception of danger is very complex and that group mechanisms may keep the individual from making decisions that a posteriori would seem more "rational". For the moment, what I am driving is that I don't think we can understand what happened on the basis of a "what I would do" approach but maybe should look for parallels in military history. How and when does a disciplined and well organized group of men fall apart? How long do the individuals continue to grasp tightly to their training and ritualized behaviour, which includes insisting on carrying items useful for normal amry life (not pitched battle) and personal belongings? Personal belongings are dead weight and one should drop them in a moment of danger, but this simply doesn't occur except at the very last (too late) moment. Normal Army life rules, burocracy, regulations and repetitive behaviour are not pitched-battle-useful and they too don't get dropped easily when real fighting starts, especially when the group hasn't seen fighting for some time. Germany had been "pacified" and the Roman preparedness for pitched fighting was not high. That doesn't mean they weren't disciplined or fit. It means that their ability to deal with sudden danger was not tuned to perfection. <p></p><i></i>
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I not sure about the argument concerning useless items and whether they would have been abandoned earlier by the Romans in the real Clades Variana. There are many instances of military and civilian history and controlled psychological tests that document that the perception of danger is very complex and that group mechanisms may keep the individual from making decisions that a posteriori would seem more "rational". For the moment, what I am driving is that I don't think we can understand what happened on the basis of a "what I would do" approach but maybe should look for parallels in military history. How and when does a disciplined and well organized group of men fall apart? How long do the individuals continue to grasp tightly to their training and ritualized behaviour, which includes insisting on carrying items useful for normal amry life (not pitched battle) and personal belongings? Personal belongings are dead weight and one should drop them in a moment of danger, but this simply doesn't occur except at the very last (too late) moment. Normal Army life rules, burocracy, regulations and repetitive behaviour are not pitched-battle-useful and they too don't get dropped easily when real fighting starts, especially when the group hasn't seen fighting for some time. Germany had been "pacified" and the Roman preparedness for pitched fighting was not high. That doesn't mean they weren't disciplined or fit. It means that their ability to deal with sudden danger was not tuned to perfection. <p></p><i></i>
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
