Late Roman belt

[Medicus matt]

Robert, I remember the conversation and I still think that the Via Latina painting shows a man in a decorated tunic, not a mail shirt. You say artistic convention, I say it's got long sleeves that are tight at the cuff and that it seems to hang in drapes like fabric, not mail (although the Chiaramoti figures exhibit the same features and that's definately armour). It's impossible to tell what the diagonal white line across the figure represents. It seems to pass over the belt and terminate some distance below it but passes under the confusing black deocration/detail on the figures chest. Could be a sam brown, could be an attempt to depict a 3rd century baldric. I can't tell, and neither can anyone else.

EVEN if it we're mail, is that a wide belt set, or is it the waist belt for the scabbard? Could the same could be true of the(hidden?) belts on the Chiaramoti carving.

As for the third picture, is it armour, is it a subarmalis with pteruges? It's a tomb, so depicts the man with the symbols of his military life (the belt being the most important?) rather than how he looked in life?

The only evidence I've seen that I beleive shows someone in armour wearing a wide beltset is the depiction from the Piazza Armerina. One example (for me) doesn't provide sufficient evidence that it was anything other than either artistic license or very far from the norm (and therefore not to be encouraged in reenactment).

Just to make it clear, I don't have a 'belt under the armour' theory. I've never said that I thought that these elaborate belt sets were worn under armour (why would you? It'd be decidedly uncomfortable.), I beleive that they were worn over one's elaborately decorated tunic when not wearing armour (when off duty or engaged in military duties away from the battlefield).

Nor do I advocate the wearing of 'tight' sword belts as mentioned in your post Robert. I try to wear mine loosely slung with the scabbard hanging off the hip, as depicted in the Stilicho dyptich. This doesn't impede the movement of the mail.

Don't get me wrong, whilst you seem to think that I'm taking an entrenched position on this, it's not the case.
If I see some evidence other than the one example that clearly demonstrates that the wide belt sets under discussion were worn over armour in the 4th or 5th century then I'll happily concede the point.

And you could just as easily hang your 'last resort' utility knife from your sword belt, for all the good it'll do you. I don't see one (or any other object) hanging from the belt in any of the examples you've presented. :wink: