08-12-2007, 11:35 PM
I agree with your analysis. Many of these "what ifs?" are hard to compare and a change of date of a decade often changes the picture. For example, I agree that the state that Phillip created was crucial to Alexander's success, and that it would not be available to an earlier Greek expedition.
On the other hand, an earlier expedition will have caught Persia without Egypt to draw from- a source of some of their best heavy infantry. All of the other heavy infantry, with the exception of Assyrians, in Persian service came from western Anatolia which would have been defeated quickly if we can judge by Agiselaos experience.
I agree that the Persians did not ignore the threat of hoplite infantry, but as of Agiselaos' time they had still not come up with an answer- perhaps because hiring other hoplites was usually so easy.
The only way I see that Persia could have stopped an invasion of a happy, united (a.k.a. mythological) Greece would be to catch them in a manner similar to Carrhae. Again we look to history and find them unable to do this when faced with the almost cavalry-less 10,000- I don't believe that they could have stood off and shot them up but decided not too, it is simply too much fun shooting arrows at massed hoplites. A true invasion force would probably have included Thessalonian and Thracian elements as well as cavalry raised in Anatolia.
Oddly the Spartans might have saved Persia. The most megalomaniacal Spartans, Agiselaos and Lysander were both reigned in by a cautious home government. Imagine if it were an Athenian empire headed by Alcibiades as demagogue leading the greeks in Asia. He would have marched to China even if all of Greece fell into barbarian hands.
On the other hand, an earlier expedition will have caught Persia without Egypt to draw from- a source of some of their best heavy infantry. All of the other heavy infantry, with the exception of Assyrians, in Persian service came from western Anatolia which would have been defeated quickly if we can judge by Agiselaos experience.
I agree that the Persians did not ignore the threat of hoplite infantry, but as of Agiselaos' time they had still not come up with an answer- perhaps because hiring other hoplites was usually so easy.
The only way I see that Persia could have stopped an invasion of a happy, united (a.k.a. mythological) Greece would be to catch them in a manner similar to Carrhae. Again we look to history and find them unable to do this when faced with the almost cavalry-less 10,000- I don't believe that they could have stood off and shot them up but decided not too, it is simply too much fun shooting arrows at massed hoplites. A true invasion force would probably have included Thessalonian and Thracian elements as well as cavalry raised in Anatolia.
Oddly the Spartans might have saved Persia. The most megalomaniacal Spartans, Agiselaos and Lysander were both reigned in by a cautious home government. Imagine if it were an Athenian empire headed by Alcibiades as demagogue leading the greeks in Asia. He would have marched to China even if all of Greece fell into barbarian hands.
Paul M. Bardunias
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A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
MODERATOR: [url:2dqwu8yc]http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=4100[/url]
A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
