personally I thought it was good value.<br>
<br>
the kind of detail 'lacking' is something you'd be lucky to find in any repprt- unless it was very specific - in which case you'd probably looking at several costly books.<br>
<br>
there is in my opinion only one feasible way of publishing in such detail for a relatively limited interest group, and thats on the web---- which is ok if you dont mind it being available for anyone to use at zero cost and that they may 'use' all your work--<br>
<br>
not that the web could every really totally replace a book<br>
<br>
theres nothing quite like a full bookcase or four, or reading in bed or browsing in a bookshop [especially 2nd hand ].........<br>
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<p><img src="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.martin/forum/mark.gif
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Finally got the book today after a three weeks wait. Probably came from Britain on a sailboat..<br>
And I wasn't disappointed. This is a true reference book listing every military related artefact or art dug out at Dura, plus a relation of the siege, plus excellent line drawings of the different phases of the siege, plus a good color picture of a clibanarius, plus new ways to lace scales together (the lamellar leather cuisses) and so on..<br>
...Not to mention the explanation as to why seemingly dished shield bosses were found with obviously flat shields..<br>
OK, the price comes close to 200 euros, I think. (I'm too lazy to check the exchange rates with the pound but this should be about it).<br>
Given the confidential readership for this kind of book, I am actually thankful to the authors. It's good work, but it will never sell 200 000 copies like the latest Stephen King flick. Hence the prize.<br>
Another important point: it's hard cover and solid binding, which means I'll be able to open and close this book many, many times, contrary to a soft cover, whch I call the "one shot books". You read them once and since there is absolutely no decent binding, you're soon left with a bunch of loose leaves.<br>
This is a scholarly book, and scholarly books are expensive. It's a fact of life.<br>
As a comparison, I paid 45 euros, more than fifteen years ago, for a hard cover copy of Tacitus' "Germania" by the Guillaume Budé publisher (the equivalent of Loeb's Classical).<br>
And we're talking about the --short-- latin text, the translation, three maps and of course a voluminous critical apparatus. In short, a hell of a lot more work that Stephen King.<br>
I also liked the dedication to Peter Connolly. A well deserved one for an amateur archaeologist who did more for military archaeology than a lot of professionals. <p></p><i></i>
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Hi people,<br>
<br>
Simon James told me this:<br>
<br>
<em>".. you can quote me on the price :-) I wanted it to be a paperback, with a longer print-run, at half the price, but mere authors have no power over publishers. That also applies to layout; I had understood it would be a thicker book, with more room for the illustrations. I do think some of the photos are too small (although, to be honest, some of them were shot when I was a student, and were not very good; they would not take great enlargement). However, the line drawings are fine, I think (one is far too big)."</em><br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>
Well, for the reasons cited above I am pretty glad it's a hardcover --and very good quality paper, too.<br>
One thing missing as far as line drawing go, I think, is a bigger axonometric view of Dura. The one in there is far too small. I would also have loved a reconstruction of the Palmyrene Gate with the additional wall built by the Romans in front of it, similar to the reconstruction of the assault ramp and the collapse of the tower.<br>
Another interersting aspect, although not related to anything above: It seems that the persian siege did not succeed if we are to judge by the archaeological remains.<br>
The Romans then may have evacuated the city after some kind of deal with the Persians. That is what S.James supposes.<br>
Another solution, which I did not read anywhere is that the Romans may have succeeded in slipping out of the siege by the river.. <p></p><i></i>
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"It seems that the persian siege did not succeed if we are to judge by the archaeological remains."<br>
But there's a humongous seige ramp which dominates the walls! <p></p><i></i>
** Vincula/Lucy **
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Yes, but the siege ramp ws rendered unoperative by a Roman mine!<br>
<br>
Aitor<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
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<em>Yes, but the siege ramp ws rendered unoperative by a Roman mine!</em><br>
<br>
I think you'll find it was <em>the Persian siege mine</em> that was intecepted by the Roman countermine (the one with all the stiffs in it). The siege ramp is still pretty intact (I've walked up it to the wall walk)... apart from the illicit French trench dug across it one night, in which you can still see the timbers of said ramp. The city end of the ramp, like the Roman earthen rampart, were removed by the excavators.<br>
<br>
Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>
You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles
Blogging, tweeting, and mapping Hadrian\'s Wall... because it\'s there
According to Simon James the assault ramp was sapped by the Romans.<br>
"the excavator concluded that two roman mine galleries had been dug into the ramp itself trying to make it unusable. Perhaps to counter the Roman activities under the ramp, the Persians dug yet another sap mine parallel to the thwarted mine 4. However they do to seem to have been able to prevent the Romans firing their mines under the ramp, putting it out of action, at least for machines".<br>
And he concludes: "All the known assaults appear to have failed, lthough they left the defences in a precarious state. Unless the Persians broke in at the river gate or made a successful but unidentified assault somewhere else on the wall circuit, it may be that the Roman defenders surrendered in the face of sustained and massive attack with no prospect of relief". <p></p><i></i>
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Quote:</em></strong><hr>"However they do to seem to have been able to prevent the Romans firing their mines under the ramp, putting it out of action, at least for machines".<hr><br>
Are you saying the Roman disabled the ramp for Persian machines? Or were they prevented so the ramp could be used by the Persians after all? In that case it's likely that the Persians stormed the wall and conquered the city by force, right?<br>
As to 'sneaking out', about how large a garrison are we talking here? And what numbers of civilians? Is it even feasable to suppose that larger numbers could have evacuated the city without being noticed (or slaughtered later) by the Persians?<br>
<br>
I think my guess would be that the Romans struck a deal, which was of course not exactly applauded at home, hence the silence in the sources about it?<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>
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You've been there, not me, Mike, but I was only reapeating what Simon tells on his book... <br>
To make the picture complete, the Persians were sapping the Roman corner tower, seemingly to supress the harassing shooting from there over the siege ramp. They succeeded and the front wall of the tower collapsed. Simon concludes 'A bloody stalemate?'<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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<em>According to Simon James the assault ramp was sapped by the Romans.</em><br>
<br>
Well, looks like I shall have to bow to Simon on that one, then ;-)<br>
<br>
Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>
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For antonius Lucretius,<br>
<br>
this is the only pic I have.<br>
<br>
www.romanhideout.com/imag...erial1.asp <p></p><i></i>
Thanks for the pic, Luca. Are the big holes in the ground along the upper part of the wall remnants of the archeological digs?<br>
The interesting thing about Dura is that it was abandoned shortly after the siege and I wonder what it means.<br>
Why was it abandoned? It looks like all of a sudden the city and necessarily the immediate area arond it lost its importance, both military and commercial.<br>
Did the area become a no man's land?<br>
Where did all the commercial traffic going through Dura go?<br>
Palmyra? Hatra? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antoninuslucretius@romanarmytalk>Antoninus Lucretius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://lucretius.homestead.com/files/Cesar_triste.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 7/9/04 7:20 pm<br></i>
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Quote:</em></strong><hr>According to Simon James the assault ramp was sapped by the Romans.<hr><br>
There's a ginormous ramp leaning on the Roman walls. How come the Persians didn't use it?<br>
Am I missing something here?! <p></p><i></i>
** Vincula/Lucy **
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