12-07-2006, 12:18 PM
Quote:Wow! Where does that guy come from!
I don't know Aitor. Primvs Pavlus sent it to me, maybe he knows(?)
Lamellar and cataphract armour
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12-07-2006, 12:18 PM
Quote:Wow! Where does that guy come from! I don't know Aitor. Primvs Pavlus sent it to me, maybe he knows(?)
12-07-2006, 12:36 PM
hock: hock: hock: hock: hock: hock: hock: hock: hock: hock:
Quote:Thought you'd like to see this...Quite impressive!
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR FECTIO Late Romans THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST (Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
12-07-2006, 06:23 PM
Quote:Thought you'd like to see this...Quite impressive! WHOA NELLIE!! That's amazing. (Ok, enough goofing off back to grading papers!)
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
aka Travis Lee Clark (21st C. American name) Moderator, RAT Rules for RAT: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules">http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules for posting Oh! and the Toledo helmet .... oh hell, forget it. :? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />:?
12-07-2006, 07:44 PM
Quote:I don't think it would be lamellar, not at that length anyway. http://111935.aceboard.fr/111935-2342-5 ... laires.htm
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR FECTIO Late Romans THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST (Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
12-07-2006, 08:49 PM
Looks like archers armour! Although I haven't seen any personally! The helmets look like a branch of Spanglehelms?
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours! Titus Flavius Germanus Batavian Coh I Byron Angel
12-07-2006, 09:02 PM
Quote:Wow! Where does that guy come from! hock: James says that they are not lamellar but if you use the definition he gives in his book then those cuisses do meet the criteria for lamellar.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
12-09-2006, 10:21 AM
I split the discussion in three, with lamellar and cataphract armour as a new part, since it is different from the 'leather segmentata' discussion.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR FECTIO Late Romans THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST (Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
12-09-2006, 10:33 AM
Dan,
Probably, the difference between scale and lamellar is largely a nominal one... :? For me, if it is not laced, pointing upwards and tied at the point, it is not lamellar. The Dura cuisses are laced (as opposite to sewn to a fabric base) but they are like any other scales, otherwise. Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
12-09-2006, 10:41 AM
So the overlap on lamellar is upwards, probably to deflect weapon attacks from lower down like a cavalryman would need, not a foot soldier?
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
12-09-2006, 11:19 AM
But then would arrows not find an easier path? Just a thought! I always thought scale armour was vulnerable the way you discuss Aitor/Tarb , but then if the overlap is pointing up, archers would have a field-day! :?
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours! Titus Flavius Germanus Batavian Coh I Byron Angel
12-09-2006, 11:20 AM
James' definition of lamellar has to do with whether a foundation is needed for the construction and I use this definition also. The shape of the scales and the direction of overlap are largely irrelevant. The cuisses qualify as lamellar since the plates are not attached to a foundation.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
12-09-2006, 11:36 AM
Dan, therefore, locking-scale is lamellar in your opinion?
Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
12-09-2006, 09:15 PM
I would have no problem getting rid of the term "scale" entirely and replace it with something like "backed lamellar". There is too much overlap between scale and lamellar for the terms to be useful.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
12-11-2006, 10:30 AM
Quote:So the overlap on lamellar is upwards, probably to deflect weapon attacks from lower down like a cavalryman would need, not a foot soldier? They may be laced this way up to ease movement rather than in consideration of an angle of attack by an opponent. The plates tend to overlap by 50% so it makes it academic as far as reasonable angles of approach from above are concerned. Also the torso elements could be laces or wired stiffly cutting off all angles of attack leaving the limbs laced more loosely.
Conal Moran
Do or do not, there is no try! Yoda
12-11-2006, 10:40 AM
The overlap is to assist movement. It has nothing to do with the angle of attack. You'll find that the vast majority of lamellar overlaps upwards.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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