Macedonian Silver Shields

[Johnny Shumate]

Gioi,
Thanks for the shield photo. That is wonderful..!
Johnny

[hoplite14gr]

Chances are strongly in favor of the genetive foprm of a king's name but...

VASILEOS ZOIN FEIDOY = protect the life of the king -less likely though.

Kind regards

[Mythos_Ruler]

My avatar is a shield I threw together in Photoshop that is based in the most part on the shield in Gioi's post. Who knows if it's an actual "Silver Shield" though. Could be more "fantasy" on my part.

[hoplite14gr]

My avatar is a shield I threw together in Photoshop that is based in the most part on the shield in Gioi's post. Who knows if it's an actual "Silver Shield" though. Could be more "fantasy" on my part.

Probably after the Successors Wars, the Sleleukides could have something like that.
Kind regards

[Paralus]

The Macedonian "Silver Shields" are first mentioned at the outset of the invasion of India. This from the fact that their arms – or at least their shields – were silver (Justin 12.7.5). This will not have been a gift extended to the total Macedonian infantry (as Justin confusedly implies) but to an elite corps. That corps, near certainly, was the Hypaspists or “shield-bearersâ€

[PMBardunias]

[quote]the Hypaspists or “shield-bearersâ€

[Paralus]

The nuances of translation are a proper bugger. Even should we decide to use the normal translation of "shield-bearers" we really have no firm idea of the idiom or of its usage in its time. The ancient authors - particularly the primary sources of the those that have survived to us - felt no need to explain to an audience who likely knew.

If it means those who carry shields, does this imply that the phalangite did not? Self evidently no. It might, though, denote that the pelte was viewed differently? It might also mean that these were the king's "shield carriers" or, more so the agema, his "shield" when on foot? I personally think the original meaning obtained more to the "guards" aspect of their remit.

What might those two thousand years hence make of "the Seals" or of the American Airborne. Perhaps they will decide the latter were infantry that fought from the air and that a chopper gunner of Vietnam was an example of such? Or that those "deplaning" from the chopper were "the Airborne".

It's a personal view but I think too much has been made of "shield" in the translation. I think it evident that these troops, when assaulting city walls in sieges and other operations outside of pitched phalanx battle, will have utilised the aspis or a shield largely similar.

I enjoyed the article in issue three on "Surviving Hoplite battle". Your description of "shock wave" achieved by the hoplite phalanx was a very nice encapsulation of what I have tried to imagine the experience being. I doubt I will have signed up for it though. And, were I forced, will likely have numbered amongst the tresantes or "tremblers".

Nice illustration of the desperate retreat to save Kleombrotus by Johnny as well.

[Paralus]

The Macedonian telamon or phalangite shield

Unless I am wrong, the Telamon is simply the neck-strap, not the shield. Thus a Mycenean tower-shield could be slung from a telamon.

Poor expression - on my part. The Macedonian telamon shield or Phalangite shield may have been better. The shield is often referred to as such.

Perhaps it serves to indicate that the shield is supported by the baldric or strap?

[Paullus Scipio]

Welcome Paralus ! Good to see some more Aussie input!

The Argyraspides were indeed the Hypaspists, of that there can be little doubt, and they carried Aspia and Dory in Alexanders time and after, not pelte and sarissa.
The Hypaspists gained the name 'Argyraspides'(silvershields) after Alexander's death.Note it is 'aspis', not 'argypeltophoroi' which it would be if they were sarissa armed !! None of our three main sources (Diodorus, Curtius and Plutarch ) mention any change of armament. Later, in the hellenistic Macedonian army, there is a guard unit named 'Argyraspides' in honour of the originals, and these are definitely sarissa armed 'Peltasts'.
Also, although Plutarch tells us that the 'Argyraspides' at the Battle of Gabiene in 316 B.C. were all over sixty, this may be an exaggeration. Alexander began his campaign in 334 B.C., and assuming most of the army were young 18-30 year olds, a simple calculation shows they would be 36-48 at Gabiene !!! Maybe 'old' but not in their sixties !

[Paralus]

Hi Paul/Paullus and thanks for the welcome.

Yes the Argyraspids were the hypaspists and, though some would argue the toss, that remains my opinion. There is little doubt that they were rewarded with the silver as the king's infantry Guards unit.

Again, I wouldn't become overly concerned with the pelte/aspis argument. These blokes knew well the sarissa and its use. The hypaspist court guard carried such - a rather odd thing but there you go. As well, the Argyraspids are well attested operating in phalanx warfare under Eumenes both at Paraetecene and Gabiene. It is my view that, all other things being equal, the hypaspists fought the formal pitched battles (Gaugamela for example) armed as were the taxies of the phalanx. They may well have worn a cuirass. Outside of these engagements they almost certainly were deployed in a version of the hoplite panoply – particularly ascending scaling ladders etc.

As to their age, it is not only Plutarch who mentions it but Diodorus as well. This from the same source Hieronymus of Cardia. Hieronymus, whilst having his colour to apply, had no reason to exaggerate the age or actions of the Argyraspids under Eumenes’ command. After all, his description of them taking to his long term patron’s (Antigonus) phalanx is hardly likely to ingratiate him.
.
Justin makes the statement that Alexander’s invasion army was hardly in the flower of it’s youth as he took experienced men who were “masters in warâ€

[PMBardunias]

I enjoyed the article in issue three on "Surviving Hoplite battle". Your description of "shock wave" achieved by the hoplite phalanx was a very nice encapsulation of what I have tried to imagine the experience being.

Thanks, I'm looking forward to feedback because some of what I wrote goes against the prevailing wisdom of both the nay-sayers (who are mistaken in general, but correcct in some major points) and supporters of the othismos debate (who have some of the fine points wrong).

Perhaps it serves to indicate that the shield is supported by the baldric or strap?

I would agree with that. Assuming that the Telamon was used to help support the sarissa in use, then this would be a key feature diferentiating it from other peltae.

I wouldn't become overly concerned with the pelte/aspis argument.

I would not dismiss this so easily. In fact I think it much more likely for a greek to be careless with his descriptions of weapons, confoundning Sarissa, Dory and Lonche, than misapplying shield names.

I have no problem with the advanced age of the Hypaspists. Weren't Napoleon's "grumblers" over 50? There was recently a big sports story in the USA about a 59 year old man who is actively playing linebacker on a college football team. As someone who has done this I can tell you it's no mean feat.

[hoplite14gr]

YPAPISTHS = the one "under the shield" - shield bearer.

In the Athenian army the slave carrying the master'w shield

In the Beotian army hoplite tasked with the duty of carrying the Generals shield. Plutarch says that Epameinondas dishonoroubly discharged his for being bribed.

The practise was carried in the Byzantine armies (Skoutaris)

That was the original meaning of "aid de camp".

In modern Greek Army "aid de camp" translates as hypaspistis for a general's staff officer and with capital Y denotes a rank comparable to regimental sargent major.

Hope it helps

[Sean Manning]

Paralus\\n[quote]The Macedonian "Silver Shields" are first mentioned at the outset of the invasion of India. This from the fact that their arms – or at least their shields – were silver (Justin 12.7.5). This will not have been a gift extended to the total Macedonian infantry (as Justin confusedly implies) but to an elite corps. That corps, near certainly, was the Hypaspists or “shield-bearersâ€

[Paralus]

YPAPISTHS = the one "under the shield" - shield bearer.

In the Athenian army the slave carrying the master'w shield

In the Beotian army hoplite tasked with the duty of carrying the Generals shield. Plutarch says that Epameinondas dishonoroubly discharged his for being bribed.

The practise was carried in the Byzantine armies (Skoutaris)

That was the original meaning of "aid de camp".

Indeed it does. Difficult to express, but, they seem to be the king's "shield" on foot: his guard. As shield carriers for the king they and - a fortiori - the agema were the corps dedicated to his protection. A job amply displayed by Peucestas and Leonnatus in India.

The hypaspists also, interestingly, carried the king's "ceremonial" arms before the army.

It's not that I dismiss the arguments over the shield easily, rather that the discussion of these soldiers often bogs down in entrenched views of whether or not they were always armed as were hoplites. My view is that they were, as the elite and 'over-worked" corps of the army, armed in both fashions depending on the job in hand. There is no doubt they will have been armed in the hoplite panoply when assaulting the city of Tyre from a tower constructed on two boats – ditto Coenus’ brigade.

Similarly, as I have said, likely too much emphasis is laid on "shield" in the name. We don't really know how the term was used or where its emphasis lay. It is likely that Alexander renamed as hypaspists the original “foot companionsâ€

[Paullus Scipio]

Paralus wrote:-

Again, I wouldn't become overly concerned with the pelte/aspis argument. These blokes knew well the sarissa and its use. Going to have to disagree with this. Whilst individually they may well have been able to do this, there is no evidence whatsoever that the original Hypaspists fought with anything other than Aspis and Dory - the so-called Alexander sarcophogus for example portrays troops who can only be Hypaspists fighting with this gear. The hypaspist court guard carried such - a rather odd thing but there you go. Why? The Hoplite was a social class above the hoi-polloi. A sarissa is hardly a practical weapon on guard duty indoors either. As well, the Argyraspids are well attested operating in phalanx warfare under Eumenes both at Paraetecene and Gabiene. Aren't you overlooking that 'phalanx' just means a line of close-order heavy-armed/armoured infantry? It most certainly doesn't imply sarissa armed troops unless qualified e.g. 'phalanx armed in the Macedonian fashion'. Nowhere is this said of the Hypaspists. It is my view that, all other things being equal, the hypaspists fought the formal pitched battles (Gaugamela for example) armed as were the taxies of the phalanx. There is no evidence for this that I am aware of. They may well have worn a cuirass. Outside of these engagements they almost certainly were deployed in a version of the hoplite panoply – particularly ascending scaling ladders etc. There is no evidence that the Hypaspists were 'double- armed' with Dory and Aspis AND sarissa and pelte. There is good evidence that the Taxeis of the Pezhetaroi reverted from sarissa to the traditional pair of longche, other than when in big 'set-piece' battles

Paul Bardunias said:-

I have no problem with the advanced age of the Hypaspists. Weren't Napoleon's "grumblers" over 50? There was recently a big sports story in the USA about a 59 year old man who is actively playing linebacker on a college football team. As someone who has done this I can tell you it's no mean feat.

Well, it's impossible to be certain since we cannot know for sure, but I have an extremely strong suspicion that Hieronymous was grossly exaggerating. Consider the dates and inherent military probabability.Chaeronea 338 B.C., Gabiene 316B.C. As I said , men in their prime at Chaeronea will have been born in the 360's, the eldest (probably) around 370. That makes the eldestat Gabiene in their early 50's !!
Now consider from the other end. Diodorus tells us(XIX.41) 'the youngest were about 60 years old, most of the others about 70 and some even older'. That makes the youngest 38 at Chaeronea, most 48, and the eldest 53.And Alexander takes them on a long walk to India 5 years after that? Not very likely, is it? :lol:
But there is also a 'giveaway' in Diodorus' text.Antigenes, the commander of the Argyraspides sends a horsemen to make a proclamation to Antigonus Phalanx. "...wicked men, are you sinning against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander?" Notice he says'fathers' not grandfathers - clearly there is only one generation between Antigonus' raw young soldiers and the Argyraspides, or else Antigonus' army are in their mid 40's to mid 50's !! hock: Again, not very likely..... :roll: :lol:
....and I notice it is newsworthy that there is one59 year-old linebacker, not thousands...... :wink: :wink: