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From Snodgrass I first learned of bronze shields from Toprakkale that are both convex and rimmed like an aspis and may have influenced its evolution. I have hunted for further references and found some images which I shall attach below.
The grip is described as an odd one, with a central handle and two attachments for a telamon. The image I've found shows the grip oddly offset and oriented from center to edge of the sheild in a manner I would not have expected. there seems to be some question of whether these were sheilds at all and not the covers to cauldrons.
Anyone have more information?
Paul M. Bardunias
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The interplay between greece and the balkhans and Anatolia was an ancient and ongoing one. I'm posting cross threads here, but The earliest inhabitants of Crete and the first Farmers in Greece came from Anatolia. A later wave of Luwian invaders has been hypthesized. It went the other way many times, with Mycenaeans and of course Ionians on the coast of Anatolia. Then groups like phrygians.
Paul M. Bardunias
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Who were the older inhabitants of Greece? I recall another group who were pushed out, but the name escapes me?
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Quote:Who were the older inhabitants of Greece? I recall another group who were pushed out, but the name escapes me?
The earlier human, as opposed to neanderthall, europeans came from anatolia as well. One group of these we call Cro Magnon man. To relate it to the paper in the other thread (Spartans and Jews), They would be Y chromosomal type R1b, R1a, and I primarily. The group that came in with farming in the late stoneage was J2 and E3b- the most common types in Anatolia and both together, Greece. A pie chart for the Y dna of europe is below.
Paul M. Bardunias
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Errrr, no, not quite that early perhaps :lol: pealagians? or somthing like that? God now I will have to dig through a pile of books to try and find this....I know you will know these people
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 Pelasgians
Paul M. Bardunias
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Pelasgians...and who the Leleges were? People descending from the king Lelegx,but who this was? I always mixed these people-probably because IU was never interested in that early history of my country(?) :oops:
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To get back on topic.......I would not have identified those items as shields.....the handles are just all wrong! Someone has called them that because the shape resembles the classic Aspis, but I too would think they are cauldron lids or similar......
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Quote:the handles are just all wrong!
Yea, that's why I posted the pics. I'm trying to acertain what is the current thought, but, from what I have, they do seem to have been shields. The grip makes even less sense for a pot-lid!
The handle would make sense if central, and a telamon is useful on a shield of great size and weight. The off-set grip is puzzling. Egyptian shields and the large hemi-cylindrical Assyrian types have offset grips, but they are not round, so it makes sense. I need to learn more of Anatolian and Assyrian shield-types. The central-grip all bronze shields from the Balkans and elsewhere in Europe (Helzprung sp.) are more straightforward.
Paul M. Bardunias
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