Hunnic lamellar helmet

[Robert Vermaat]

Sorry István, but the text that you translated does not contradict what I wrote... :wink:

I mean, Greeks spoke Greeek during the Macedonian period, during the Roman period and during the Byzantine period. And Greek culture was very much present in Roman culture, which then developed into Byzantine culture.
Still, no scholar will say that 'the Macedonians were the same culture as the Romans or the Byzantines'.
Neither were 'the Huns the same as the Avars and the Magyars', even though they shared a lot of cultural similarities.

We can actually see when 'the Huns' began to develop into their subculture, and later 'the Avars', and later 'the Magyars'. No doubt when we describe such names, we actually describe power structures of the most dominant group in the region, groups who were lords over many sub-groups who need not have the same language or even culture as the dominant group. Descendants of the Huns could be subjects of the Avars, and so on. But all together we call them by one name, throwing in fact all elements on one heap, which we then call 'the Huns'. Etc.

But a simple statement like 'the Huns and the Avars and the Magyars are the same' just is not scientific, but rather more nationalist and has more to do with political claims than scholarly research.

[Treveri Gaul]

Robert. You acknowledge it that Hun, leaf moulds, Hungarian they derive from identical environment.

There is nothing for me my trouble with the western researchers' work . I respect them. It disturbs me that they are researchers like that, linguists say an opinion or another opinion the Huns and in the Hungarians' question, who cannot ask for a glass of water on a Hun or Hungarian language. One are not authentic for me because of these.

Not chance that the Chinese archaeologist, about who I wrote already, studies in Hungarian now.

[Treveri Gaul]

The according to the Hungarians' legend single huge king was who have call name for Nimród or Ménrót. / from Mesopotamia/ . Hunor / Hunnic/ and Magor/Magyar/ were of the sons of this king.Very strong light surrounded the deer. Was like than the light of the day. A wonderful deer was driven through more weeks while he is Kárpát finally into a pool they moored. This legend is very old. The light of the day is the god's light according to the Hungarians' faith. The Sumerian according to a depiction the day the god. A little interest yet. Sumerian on language the delegate of the celestial ones it not somebody else than it: AN-GAL. We call god's delegate in Hungarian language AN-GYAL. Really , he is Angel in the English language. This much by today from the Finnish-Ugrian ancestry tale. :lol:

[Ioannes Vandalicus]

And we have AN-DEL in Czech. What´s your point? I always thought that etymology of word angel is from Greek - Angelos - messenger. Other European languages borrowed this word with christianity. It sounds better to me than looking for some similarities between Sumerian, which were all dead by year 1500 BC and Finnic-Ugrian people (and other proto-nations in Europe) who were in late stone age/early bronze age by this time.
Sumerian language is isolate language. There is no serious study, which documents it´s relationship with ANY other language.

And I agree with Robert. Sorry, but Huns, Avars and Magyar, despite all similarities are not the same thing. Huns were described as mongoloids, Avars came from Caucasus - there are still nations with almost indentical culture. And they were all absorbed or wiped out from Slavs after their defeat from Charlemagne. Certainly there were some fragments when Hungarians arrive, but not great population, and this population was turkic, not finnic-ugrian.
I cannot say that in Czech republic we are descendants of Germans, just because here was Marcomannia. For the same reason we cannot claim Celtic heritage.
But if I am archeologist, who is specialised in Marcomans, I would go to czech republic. Not because czechs are descendant of them, just because they lived here and here are plenty of finds from their time.

So with all respect, Huns, Avars, Magyar, they have somewhat similar culture, they shared style of steppe warrior, but they are not same thing.

[Treveri Gaul]

"So with all respect, Huns, Avars, Magyar, they have somewhat similar culture, they shared style of steppe warrior, but they are not same thing."

This is not true in this manner. Than your Finnish-Ugrian root not true. From an identical ethnic group there is word with an identical language
Ã

[Ioannes Vandalicus]

Ok, lets put aside Huns and Avars, I do not know as much about them to debate this. But Sumerians were for the long time my main history interested, so here I can debate.

for your link - there is only one text in english, which tells nothing new to me (that ancient sumerian legends are closely related to the Old Testament), other texts are in hungarian, I dont understand, so I cannot read read it.

BUT (yes, there is a BIG BUT here) - all these teories which put Hungarian and Sumerian origin together are claimed by Hungarian scietists. Other scientists are rather...sceptical.
We have more teories. Same teories as these hungarian relate Sumerian language to Baskic language or Dravid language. Or even Etruscan (which is rather funny, because we know almost nothing about etruscan)
And there are some other hungarian teories, which are making from proto-hungarian language almost mother to all european and middle east languages.
Many of the grammatical features of Sumerian are attested in other living languages outside of the Indo-European family to which English belongs.
In the respective vocabularies of any two languages there are often words which are similar in form, meaning and sound. However, similar words with similar meanings do NOT prove that languages are related. It may point to a possible relationship; you would still need to examine the origin of each and every word in order to be certain that the similarity is not due to chance or to other factors such as borrowings or native compounding

This is by no means disrespectful to Magyar people - I know that they have great culture, great history and they are very proud people...and my nation have been with them in one state for several hundred years. They have my deep respect... ...but keep it real.

(ah, and sorry for OT - this is really far from my original avar helmet topic)

[Treveri Gaul]

"ah, and sorry for OT - this is really far from my original avar helmet topic)" :oops:


True is really far I avoided it the helmet from a topic. I apologise to everybody. On the web page all articles is in English on the sheet's bottom. Yet onto a word. In the article not from a speech there is a word but sumer-magyar from writing. According to me in this manner already more important in the articles wrote down. :roll:

[Ioannes Vandalicus]

one very last question for this helmet... would it be suitable for eastern roman/byzantine soldier/officer? (I want to be sure)
6th century , under Belisarius...

[Robert Vermaat]

Silvered or gilded, why not?