Magyarok/Magyars

[Treveri Gaul]

Summed up.

The today's Hungarian nationalities miss the Asian genes in the course of the genetic researches. Ethnic groups living on Hungary's area wear their ancestors' genes on themselves who Persian, Iranian, Kurdish, szarmata, Hun, Scythian, daha they were tribes here I enumerate it the sumerita tribes . The tribes the language spoken jointly, and a blood contract bound under Kiev formed it into a nation.

Than I wrote early the Finnish-Ugrian tale will not be tenable in additional ones in the Hungarians' concern. The Hungarians returned home for their ancestors' land in 896, since Attila according to our chronicles not the " Huns " but the " Magyars " the first was his big king. When under Kiev the 7 tribes blood contract bound not accidentally Ã

[Treveri Gaul]

Magyar warriors

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZVaf_tj ... re=related

a little interest:

we know it punctually already today based on the archaeological finds that the successor was a Hungarian rider's equipment:

- Onto 6 weeks enough food, meat dust and dehydrated milk powder
- wool underwear
- a curve sword
- 2 pieces of bow 80 arrows
- fades / lance
- martial axe /FOKOS

[Treveri Gaul]

The last free Celtic people lived together and died with the Hungarians?

Cotinus on a tribe's supposed dwelling places can be found the graves.


The Borsod/ Nord-East Hungary county/ Celtic ones availed themselves of Scythian ones together 25 are 2008. Junes.



Few graves - exciting diagnoses


The single grave types - according to their forming and their rite - the successor it is possible to separate it.

1.: A grave with skeletons is with filling about which right cannot be been. It ÉNy-DK orientation, three pots were nyújtottvázas in a grave with skeletons, on the right side of a jar and two dishes, the feet. (3.kép) on A dead left hand eight blister bronze bracelet ( 4. picture ) and thick bronze was a ring (5.kép), concerning both of his ankles eight blister bronze foot pretzels decorated (6.kép), which corrosion of his preserved it the one which can be put up for a young girl's skirt the fabric residue of finomszövésű ( 7. picture ), the residue of textile with a rougher quality (possibly blanket, with which the dead person was covered,? 8. picture ), concerned szervesanyag residues, which may have been the parts of the rush mat covering the dead person or a coffin, ( 9. picture ).

In his dead neck on a bronze chain with a change eye with beautiful development, amber circle hanged around. Furthermore his dresses on a chest part 3 bronze fibula and an big (10cm-es!) an iron fibula decorated it ( 10. picture ). The belt hook of his belt was iron, állatcsontmelléklet was concerned in the grave. From among the bronze fibula two the with a Kosd plastic ornament, kötöttlábú is very similar to a bronze fibula, which it is on his basis, i. this. onto the first half of 3 centuries, his middle datable ( 11. picture ).


The pictures of the exploration in our gallery

2.: With a deep, square pit with filling about which right can be been, szórthamvas graves. The with a deep, square pit with filling about which right can be been, szórthamvas the diagnosis substance of graves the successor: a pot of his edge fraction and iron scissors with a good state turned up yet in the company of a smaller pot in the 7. grave - the 3. may be century on that of which level ( 12. picture ). The 5. No. grave brought a real surprise on the other hand: on the middle of the grave to each other nearly 8 pieces of pot and a change of bronzhuzalgyöngyökből a bound neck or a bracelet occupied a position el ( 13. kép ). Between the pots because of the 35 centimetres of tall big jar through the medium-sized pots the little fülesbögréig was everything which can be found (little dishes), but the real surprise an small-sized, but more characteristic vertical comb ornament graphitic ceramics caused it at it, that the grave it ún. oppidum-kultúra onto his time could date ( 14. picture ). Pots like this though the middle La Tene which are typical of an age, so chronologywise this pot onto the 3. century can be dated. too even - as an early incidence.

It found a job in the northwest part of the grave, beside the pots real treasure area. It was broken up here the dead person, burned quite badly his ashes and the jewels put between the ashes. This diagnosis band together with land - in one ("in situ) - it was picked up, in this manner onto his decomposition later, a row is found in the museum then. Despite this more objects peeped out from among the blooms ( 15. picture ): for example four bronze fibula, which ones with foot knit likewise, two from among them possibly with a disk ornament, two though lace ( 16. picture ). Beside this another, possibly the fractions of six iron fibula visible, but the really important diagnoses an possibly bronze with a plastic ornament bracelet ( 17. picture ), an iron bracelet and an from large blisters standing, bronze the residues of a foot pretzel with a cullet. According to the primary opinion this grave possibly onto the 3. century can be dated, but his 2. century date may appear probable. His more accurate chronology placement turns into possible one after the restoration of the objects naturally.

3.: The third group, the with a unknown shape with filling about which right cannot be been, szórthamvas the group of graves, a metal substance were skimpier already in his look, only two were an iron fibula and a bigger pots in the company of the blooms for example in the 6. grave ( 18. picture ). The fraction of only an iron fibula and an iron knife settled down in the 4. grave likewise, on the other hand here five pots, two were dishes in the row of the enclosures between them ( 19. picture ). The most beautiful grave the 2. was No. in this group, in which one an nicely korongolt was a jar in the company of a bigger pot, a smaller dish and a little jar ( 20. picture ). The metal substance showed a right proportion in this grave, since beside three iron fibula, a bound, small-sized bronze fibula with button foot turned up ( 21. picture ), that based on his parallels likewise onto the 3. century can be dated. The pots of the rest of the group's graves render this date probable. The interest of the grave on the other hand iron knife with an arched back with a good state, which shows Scythian characteristics rather,, than Celtic ones ( 22. picture ).

4.: The 4. group the with a disturbed, unknown rite (presumably szórthamvas), the group of graves with filling which cannot be seen. Here altogether two graves owes. The 1. No. grave altogether an earlier disturbing on his row strongly damaged, omphalloszos (with a lumpy bulge) bottom pot consisted of his residues ( 23. picture ). In this grave ashes, neither they were not additional enclosures. The 3. No. grave, which we hit on the surface directly, turned up in a bad state in the rut of the timber exploitation bulldozer similarly. This grave an omphalloszos bottom the residues of pot marked it, with so many differences, that here from the neighbourhood yet together we were able to serve - a whetstone belonging to the grave - with the trace of iron corrosion, a szélespengéjű cuttingkés, you are a razor his residues and some additional iron fractions, which function of his unknown ( 24. picture ).

Summary verifiable, that an little with a grave number, the archaeologists happened upon a richer cemetery universally at it on the other hand is typical of the graves, that into them burned badly - grave ceramics put largely - disregarding one or two burned well from pot ( 25. picture ). The graves to each other the position of truth does not show a stranger system, the burials because of each other onto 8-15 metres they find a job, two grave pair like that which can be found on the other hand, which ones near each other, but they lie with at least 1 metre fall (the 3-8. graves and the 5-6. graves).

The cemetery based on the primary watch onto the 3-2. centuries datable (this may change in the light of the additional researches yet naturally), so onto the period of the eastern Celtic cultural koine - that period the Celtic-Scythian living together characterize it in noon Borsod here. The cemetery well can be inserted will be into the row of the cemeteries found in Sajópetri lying in the neighbourhood and Muhi - which residents of his basically a rich diagnosis substance is at their disposal - Sajó rescues it onto iron trade because of their activity under construction presumably.

[Treveri Gaul]

It SNP analysis based on results can be rendered probable, that the ancestors of a part of the today's Hungary population and the kazakisztáni Madjar between the ancestors of a population sometime in the past (according to our today's historical and archaeological knowledge with at least 1300-1500 years before) a genetic relationship may have existed.
The current Y chromosome examination gives first unambiguously definable (measurable), context and hereby actual join point the today's Carpathian Basin Hungarian population, and beyond a Urál between the population of an area.


Source: Bíró András Zsolt anthropologist

[Tarbicus]

TG, I must insist that you provide the relevant sources an/or links to your statements from here on, so that they can be verified and examined should anyone wish to do so.

There is much debate and controversy about the veracity of so-called genetic testing, and it can often used and abused for private and political agendas.

Sources from now on, please.

[Treveri Gaul]

Vale Tarbicus.

Scientific results

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This is the origin Magyar text: http://www.kurultaj.hu/eredmenyek


In the course of the anthropological examinations eight different heads and I fixed a face size, and the szinkomplexiót and I examined the characteristic morphological tickets (detailed tables and the results in the anthropological article appearing soon legible).


In his totality verifiable, that the head and based on face ones a brachycephal (little face), smaller part mesocephal, long face, significantly europid basis population (basis populations) and with a different type mongolid forms (not inevitably Mongolians!) continuous (in more waves to be realized) a character band took shape through his mixing the madjar is typical of the today's members of a population. In many cases so taxonomy groups demonstrable the torgaji between madjarok, that they are on a sign in the Carpathian Basin Hungarian nationalities. On today's Kazakisztán huge area from an anthropological viewpoint most heterogeneous the population (Ismagulov,1968). Merely the kazak the differences may be whacking because of the different regions inside a folk függően, and the components of the taxonomy characters may be most diverse even on an area.


Would be heavy taking the continuous migration into consideration to establish merely with anthropological methods, this metizációs the accurate geographical place of zones and his time. In all these beside the chronicles and traditions the different disciplines (history, archaeology, ethnography stb) his cooperation and the genetic researches may give additional footings.


Genetic examinations:
In the latter period the geneticists - it based on the characteristics of Y chromosome, polymorphisms appearing on a chromosome turning up concerned on this exclusively in men - kifejlesztették a mindezidáig leghatékonyabb populációgenetikai összehasonlító módszert (Y-kromoszóma STR-ek* és SNP statisztikai alapú elemzése). It Y chromosome offers the best opportunities in the exploration of the paternal lineage lines (being recombined flies the one according to the consecutive blood does not show a considerable difference from father to son, because of this between generations). It Y- the characters of polymorphisms taking shape in the course of the generations in chromosomes may separate the paternal lines of the different populations well however, may nominate it concerned they his contact between each other, and may give a footing possibly the branching out onto his time.


Madjar to the research of a tribe's genetic relationships we selected this method (Rosser et al, 2000). I bought a genetic sample from altogether 106 men in the course of the expedition (he managed to extract DNA from these in all cases in the labouratory later), from which it was possible to separate 46 paternal lines.


We did the labouratory examinations and analysing in Budapesti Orvosszakértői Intézet DNS Laboratórium Dr. Pamzsav Horolma vezetésével, Dr.Völgyi Antónia és Zalán Andrea genetikusok közreműködésével. Our detailed genetic professional article appears soon (expectedly in a December).


DNS Laboratórium it forensic and expert research institutes' Budapesti Univ. working under his management institute (BOI) serves as his organizational unit.
DNS Laboratórium basic activity the judicial orders, apart from a lawsuit in cases and based on commissions fatherhood DNA the accomplishment of examinations.
The ancillary activity of ISZKI BOI DNS Laboratórium the continuation of the applied research, which is attached directly, it forensic genetic/to an expert activity and indirectly to the fundamental research.


Madjar tribe Y-kromoszóma SNP data based on international cooperation examined and we compared it with the data of 38 published different populations selected by us (that they derive from Eurázsia different areas), between them with the Hungary Hungarian sample. They are included in the selected populations there Madjar folk living in a tribe's relative geographical proximity (kazakok, Uzbeks, Russians, evenkik, Mongolians, tadzsikok, Turkmenian, Kyrgyzs stb.). furthermore távolabbiak like that, with which their contact may have been in the course of the times (Turkishs, Uighurs, Ukrainians, Bulgarians, Manchurian, different Caucasus ones, Middle East, for a Finn, Lapp stb.) and Europeans differing for a comparison (Germans, French, Greeks, Polishs, Italians, stb.), Far-Eastern (Koreans, Japaneses, Chineses stb.).


The madjar a tribe's sample proved to be most homogeneous it Y-considering the distribution of haplocsoportok (opposite the heterogenety showed in their anthropology characters!)
It Y-kromoszóma NP analysis (AMOVA analysis, Arlequin with the application of software) results received on his ferry most noteworthy from that viewpoint, that got most close to each other the Hungary Hungarian and the kazakisztáni madjar sample.



Madjar to a tribe's sample the Hungary Hungarian was found the nearest (!),
observing this then it oszét, Ukrainian, Bulgarian, Turkish, Uighur, Lapp.



In generality can be related, that rare it, when two are distant places like this because of each other geographically (in a beeline cca. 3000km) shows similarity in a measure like this. General trend, that the different populations are similar to the populations living in their environment better, than to the population of the farther areas. The genetic distance increases by the geographical distance growing generally
(if not too proportionally). Particularly feature this the relatively once (many of his centuries) on a place living person, settled in the case of a basis population leading a lifestyle. The different areas (zones) took shape under characteristic, long time the migration may modify his genetic pattern the most considerably.


It SNP analysis based on results can be rendered probable, that the ancestors of a part of the today's Hungary population and the kazakisztáni Madjar between the ancestors of a population sometime in the past (according to our today's historical and archaeological knowledge with at least 1300-1500 years before) a genetic relationship may have existed. The current Y chromosome examination gives first unambiguously definable (measurable), context and hereby actual join point the today's Carpathian Basin Hungarian population, and beyond a Urál between the population of an area.


Source: Bíró András Zsolt anthropologist


Tarbicus:

You have true is in it that the politics may be a determining thing, but the facts they very stubborn things.The ancestry was not questionable for the Hungarians until the 17. century consciousness. The big Hun leader from Attila's folk there is a word who have the Scythian ancestor from Iran and Mezopotamia.For these the rider archer folks' mixing the today's Hungarian nationalities, and not one of the Finnish-Ugrian folk family's branches

[Magnus]

I agree with Tarbicus. This entire thread could/should have been linked to an external site with all of the information on it. Otherwise this just looks too much like spam.

[Treveri Gaul]

The topic is too interesting for an advertisement - SPAM . According to me. :lol:

[Magnus]

Yeah, but you're the only one. This belongs on wiki or something else. It's wasting thread space.

[Treveri Gaul]

Magyar/madjar meeting.




Kurultaj 2008.

http://www.szphoto.extra.hu/getfile.php ... rultaj.exe

[Treveri Gaul]

futtatás - running
mentés - save


:lol:

[Praefectusclassis]

Kurultaj 2008.

http://www.szphoto.extra.hu/getfile.php ... rultaj.exe

I would strongle recommend against offering and downloading executable files from the internet. It's asking for trouble, as your virus scanner / browser will warn you.

[Treveri Gaul]

Salve Jasper

I say thank you for the warning.

The kurultaj message fell on already many times virus filters. Avast, Axon Email Virus Scanner. etc. The message totally safe, I would not have upload anyway here.

Dank u vel.

[Treveri Gaul]

14 thousand Hunza nationality a man lives on places which can be roamed difficultly on the neighbourhood of Pakistan. The pictures relate everything. Their words the today in a Hungarian language can be found and we use them.

[Treveri Gaul]

the source of the article:

http://hunza.freeblog.hu/