Greek Bronze Greaves

[Chris B]

Thanks Giannis. You guys have been more help than you'll ever know. I spent all day working today so it's day 3 into my work. I still have a ways to go but thought I would take a break and post an update.

I already broke the knee off the mortar cast. Like a little kid, I just had to see if I could hammer on it. The answer is NO! :oops: My father made a planishing post for me with a 2" trailer hitch ball on the end of a very thick pipe that I now have to use. It is helping some.

I have been annealing literally every few minutes of work. I have my MAAP Gas torch and a bucket of water sitting right next to my work area. It has helped not to break the metal. I will always anneal metal more often now. Consider that lesson learned.

Bronze is VERY, VERY resilient and flexible so it is hard to form in the sense that it just springs back to its old shape as you move from one section to the next. You have to re-hammer the same shapes over, and over, and over. I have found that you CANNOT focus on any one area too much. Matt was right in thinking that you have to slowly shape the WHOLE greave at once.

I have discovered the secret to the curve, but getting it perfect is going to be something else. First, you absolutely have to get the knee area right. By that, I mean that you have to dish it and curve the knee area in the general curve of the bone first. Then you have to lower the area to the inside of the knee cap several inches. Look at your leg right under the knee to the inside curve, right before it passes behind your leg. There is a steep drop inside that is probably the most the metal will have to move and will also have the greatest chance to break aside from the knee.

The second trick to the curve is the calf itself. You have to find a way to push the calf muscles out with the greave closed to blend with the curve being set by the knee area. I am getting much closer, but still am having trouble hammering. I know I am right this time, but am having trouble getting the greave to hug every square inch of my leg perfectly. It really is hard. Well, enough talking. Here are progress pics.

The one on the left it the new attempt and the one on the right is the old. I think anyone would agree they are night and day comparisons now. I didn't get a good angle from the front so look at the one from the back to see more of the curve. The greave needs to be rotated clockwise an inch or so to see it clearly.

I'll get better pics once I get further along. I am going to start the left tomorrow and get it to this stage and then work on them both to completion.

[Chris B]

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Yeah! It does look WAY better this one! What can I say...I look forward to the result. Please keep us posted!
Khaire
Giannis

[Chris B]

Here is the final shape of the right leg. The left is about 80% shaped and looking identical. It fits snug against the leg although it definately doesn't follow the leg perfectly. I can live with this shape though.

It does not pull away from the leg and springs into place, but it may slide a little down the leg. I am hoping the liner will cinch it in tighter. I will finish planishing and sanding tomorrow and put the liner in the greave. I have walked around in both greaves without any discomfort. It does hurt a little to run in them, but not bad.

I am going to leave well enough alone because I am notorious for trying to get it to perfection until it breaks. I am really happy with it so I am finishing it as is and will put the small wraps around the ankle in linen like I have seen numerous reenacting groups do on here.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Chris,you got it! It looks perfect!No kidding,with it's black colour it looks like an ancient one! I would brobably play a bit with the knee desigh,but am not sure how those stylized detrails could be worked out. Can you post more photos od it?

[Chris B]

Yes. I will post many photos of them both when I am done. Patience my friend. All kidding aside, I hope to have them 100% done by Sunday night. I will post pics of the set and with them on me too. The knee fits flawless though.

I think I can speak rather definatively on the curve now though. It is comprised of two details. The shape of the bone and surrounding area to the knee have to be shaped and cut to curve to the kneecap. That starts the look of the curve due to the shape of the upper third of the greave and because of the sunk portion of the front of the leg just before the knee which creates the "inside" of the curve.

The more important part to get it is the shape of the calf muscle along the outside edge. The problem here is the size of your individual calf muscle. Those with more defined and larger calves will have a more pronounced curve. Look at Manning greaves as an example. I have seen a few different size calves and the smaller ones don't look anywhere even close to the larger legs curveature.

If you really study the pictures of well made greaves, the angle completely disappears at certain angles when turning it because you lose the ability to see both the cut outer edge of the upper third of the greave and the outside of the dishing used to create the outer calf muscle. The cut portion meets up almost perfectly visually from the front with the calf's natural curve. I am trying my best to explain it. Hopefully that makes sense.

[QVINTVS ARTORIVS CORVINVS]

Chris,

Looking good mate!

Are you dishing and planishing, or are you raising the more complicated areas as well? I found that dishing sometime kicks up the opposite side to what you are working which is a pain in the a$$. Raising seems to help with more localized material movement.

BTW - you have a link to your muscled breastplate?

[Chris B]

I did both. The knee is dished, but the calves are mostly formed by raising the metal. I have the majority of planishing and heavy sanding done on the right greave and plan to finish them both by Sunday evening. The right still has some tooling marks that I cannot seem to get out or get the angles I need to planish them well, but I can live with that. I would rather have a few marks than weaken the metal by sanding them much more.

Here is a pic of the cuirass. This was taken before it was completed though. I'll get some pics of the entire set in a week or so and post them. I am considering shortening the pteryges on my subarmor although I may leave them as is instead of risking ripping the material to shreds.

[QVINTVS ARTORIVS CORVINVS]

I know how much of a hassle it can be to raise the muscles out (but not out too much :wink: ... I never know when to stop )
And that process does leave its share of unique pock marks that are brutally hard to planish or bouge out due them being in the creases of the muscles. and I have to commend you on practicing in Bronze as opposed to something a little cheaper... I still haven't planished mine, and yea, I probably took it too far :roll:

I think I get hypnotized as I raise the muscles in relief...

[Chris B]

Yours looks very good. I just am not as worried about some marks. Every item I have bought ends up with marks on it anyways. When I was law enforcement, I would baby my new Glock gently placing it in the lock box when we would go into the jail until the first day I scratched it. Then I practically threw the darn thing in the box after that. I am quite sure that the majority of armor got scratched from training, wearing it in combat, marching in it, etc. I try to get it as good as possible, but then don't worry about it not being perfect.

[Ceasar Augustus]

The cuirass and the greaves both look great. Laudes!

[Chris B]

Well that's frustrating to say the least. I got down to the last grade of sandpaper and an abnormality in the metal showed. I went to lightly touch it and it caved. It is on the front bone half way down the leg. There was no tooling mark there or dent. It must have been an impurity in the metal. I used a copper brazing rod and sealed it. It is structurally sound, but the area of about a dime is more nickel colored instead of bronze now.

So I have an opinion question. Leave it as is or try to paint that one area with bronze modeling paint to cover it up? I don't have it in me to do this again. I was soooo careful too! hock:

[Terran Stewart]

I've not tried this method in a situation like this before, but:

You might want to obtain a *brass wire* brush, heat the area to near red or red, then vigorously scrub the nickel colored portion. The area should turn more of a yellow color. This technique works with iron and steel, so it may be worth a try. Naturally, I'd suggest a test-run on scrap first. Also, since this is bronze/brazing rod, perhaps a different temperature would give better/worse results...

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

I think it woold be ok if you left it as it is...Painting it doesn't sound the best,to me. Maybe Terran's advice worths a try,after all he seems to be posting very rarely...
Khaire
Giannis

[Chris B]

Thanks for the replies. I am going to walk away from the right today and think about it. I am going to work the left to completion and then go back and decide what to do.