How hoplites carried their spears

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

OK,in the last posts I was reffering to Paul B.
Well, i don't know what the common belief tends to be among scholars,but among re-enactors -an this is because it is far more practical- the sleeve method is preffered. Actually,most of them use two typical dory shafts joined together,which results in an extraordinary bending in the joint aread,added to the one each shaft has,because of its thin diametre. It would be even more logical if sarissae were typically thinner in the tip than in the butt. What was the case with medieval lances?
Khaire
Giannis

[hoplite14gr]

@ both Pauls
The Laconian sword is truly un-apreciated weapon. Very usefull in crammed spaces. I have difficulties with my long archaic sword if I am in the center of the formation while with the reconstructed Laconian none.

As for the sarrisa there are 16th century pikes in museums with a single rigid shaft. I am of the opininon that only late hellenistic pikes were like them.

The first pikes were probably 2-pieces and their blades were very thin.
I think I have posted example on the sarrisa thread.

As for tappered spear it is easier in handling than the non tappered.

Kind regards

[PMBardunias]

of course they were one piece,and they didn't have a metal tip. But again,even the weight of the shaft itself should have bent the wood. However they're considerably thick. And i tend to believe that all those reconstructions of sarissa wobble so much just because they have that joint cyllinder in the center...

I'd be curious to know how they made the sarissa for the movie. Do we even know they are wood and not aluminum? Also, a quick measure using a 6 foot man for scale shows that these sarissa are less than 15' long. All that said, I think a properly made one-piece sarissa can be stiff if the right wood is used, I simply pointed out the comical wobble of those seen today. Then again it is possible that some level of flexion is useful.

As to Sarrisas, I was under the impression that the whole 'sleeve'/jointed sarissa was now somewhat controversial, with many advocating a single, rather than jointed, shaft

I think this is the case as well. It would seem to me that the sleeve-joint would not be used unless good quality wood of the proper length was not found long enough. The space saving of breaking it in two was probably not worth it, if you've ever used anything thet telescopes or comes apart, like fishing poles or tent poles, you'll probably agree that a single shaft is more reliable and robust.

It would be even more logical if sarissae were typically thinner in the tip than in the butt. What was the case with medieval lances?

I don't know about medieval lances, but some of the longest lances I know of were those weilded by Poles and Cossaks. It is my understanding that these shafts, some 5 1/2 meters, were hollow.
http://www.jasinski.co.uk/wojna/comp/comp06.htm

[Sean Manning]

OK,in the last posts I was reffering to Paul B.
Well, i don't know what the common belief tends to be among scholars,but among re-enactors -an this is because it is far more practical- the sleeve method is preffered. Actually,most of them use two typical dory shafts joined together,which results in an extraordinary bending in the joint aread,added to the one each shaft has,because of its thin diametre. It would be even more logical if sarissae were typically thinner in the tip than in the butt. What was the case with medieval lances?
Khaire
Giannis

Peter Connolley (JRMES 11 (2000) pp. 103-112) mentions that 5-7 m pikes in one piece were common in the Renaissance, and had no bending problem. The trick is to use specially grown (coppiced) wood. Thus I believe that ancient pikes were in one piece too! I can see how a two-piece version would be much more practical for reenactors, though, what with the need to source the wood and the need to for the awkward things into your house and car!

He interprets Alexander's xyston and the Persian lances on the Alexander Mosaic as tapered, and since he thinks the Persian lances in the background are Macedonian sarissas he believes sarissas were too. His sarissa reproductions had no wobbling problem.

[PMBardunias]

Giannis' mention of tree height reminded me that trees naturally taper with height. This might cause a difference in strength between the lower and higher cross sections.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2346/225 ... 4db8_o.jpg
One more statue.I hadn't seen this before but it's interesting that the other one I was trying to find(the one shown on the Osprey book) also holds the spear from the sauroter,has the cloak hung frim the left shoulder and holds a felt pilos cap with the left hand :!: Perhaps the same artist :?:
Khairete
Giannis

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

By the way,my spear shaft has a thickness of 2,2 cm in all its length and could be thinner in the tip actually.
Khairete
Giannis