Glueing a Linothorax

[Chris B]

Maybe 6 inches or so. They really aren't that hard to make though. You just need a saw to cut the rings out and a belt sander. That's all I used on my Aspis and Boeotian for the woodwork.

[Chris B]

I think it is 34". It is a big shield. The boeotian is even larger. I really think it would be wayyyy cheaper to make it yourself. It really isn't that hard. I could help walk you through it.

[Chris B]

Well, if you decide you would rather get help, I would be willing to help you out since you have helped me on these topics, but I think the shipping alone would be astonishing. I promise....All you need is a cheap belt sander with the rounded front and a cheap saw or borrow them from someone.

Do you want me to document the steps of making the one I am doing tonight to help you? I would be willing to videotape some of the sanding to show you how I attack the inside and outside edges with a belt sander....It really makes it easy.

[Chris B]

I started a new thread for the aspis so we don't continue to clutter the glueing a linothorax thread. Post any questions you have there, and I will answer them as I go.

[Chris B]

Okay. Now that I have done the aspis, hopefully it motivates you to knock one out Comerus. I postponed my linothorax to help you with an aspis. Isn't that special? :lol:

Back to the lino where I am sure to have questions.

Now, I started gluing my first part of my lino tonight and am seeing that it is difficult to keep the layers from pleating, and it is difficult to keep them straight. I tried working wet like you suggested Ouragos, but I am having a hard time. I am using a tile spreader and putty knife to get pleats out, but they come back as soon as I flip it and start the next layer.

Are each of your layers completely perfect or do you get it close and just worry about the upmost layers laying perfectly flat once you have a more rigid core? I have noticed that my linen is thick enougn for a higher layer to cover imperfections in a lower layer. At this point I am planning on adding one layer per day so that I can hopefully keep all the small puckers and pleats out of the linen. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I only glued 4 layers tonight to wait for a response to this.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

It started then...
How do you spread the layers one over the other? Matt Amt had a nice idea. Did you follow him on that? He wraps each layer around a broom stick,and and he spread each layer like that to make it smoothe.I Think this is what he did...
Khaire
Giannis

[Chris B]

Yeah. Other than buying a Chalcidian and making a high crest for it, this is my last project for 2008. That is a great idea. I missed that one. Thanks.

[Chris B]

Giannis,

That worked like a charm. Thanks. I have both the halves for the body glued, cut out, and I am painting them white currently. The yoke is at half its thickness and I am gluing one layer per day.

I tested some of the scrap layers with the same paint I use on the shields. Once it dries, it doesn't chip, fold, or break away at all so I am painting the whole outer layer white so that it can be cleaned with use. I am NOT painting the inside. I may add a thin wool felt layer to the inside to clean it up and make it softer against the body.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Glad it worked. It sounds like it's going on quickly. I suppose we should expect photos soon? Have you started making plates? What portion of the thorax are you going to cover with plates?
Khaire
Giannis

[Chris B]

I will probably not take pics until the two 7 layer halves are sewn together and trimmed waiting on scales. I have not started making scales yet and anticipate it taking a few weeks to make them all. I plan on only placing scales from an inch above the flaps just above a painted trim to about a 1/2 inch below the upper edge of the sides. Basically, I will make a full wrap around the body, but not cover the entire thorax or any of the yoke.

I will have the flaps, painted trim, rows of scales, another painted trim just above the top scales, and then a painted trim at the very top of the front. I will paint the yoke and leave it without scales.

[ouragos]

Just logged on - sorry. But you seem to have overcome the problem you faced so nothing lost :lol:

I am a little surprised you encountered ridges when gluing the layers together, but if you started with material that was creased, or more to the point, was both creased and pretty thick linen that might explain it? It also needs to have enough, but not too much glue. Tile spreader (flat edge) was the right way forward and I guess that now you have assembled one you would be more effective if you were to do another. Building wet is, perhaps, something you would find easier after you had built a couple, but that is simply getting used to how the building materials work.

OR... and with hindsight I am guessing this is where the problem lies, did you glue the body or the layer to be added to the body? If the latter, that is why you will have experienced problems. You should always put the glue on the body and apply a dry piece of linen. Maybe I should have made this very clear at the outset? :oops:

On this, material stretches and so on the lower layers it is not worth stressing about eveything being in line. The trick on the final layer is to line the weave with the chest - and as you are applying a dry layer of cloth it is pretty easy to do this.

Paint - should have mentioned, and again probably too late, but if anyone thinks spraying paint on will speed the process, think again. Spray paint forces the linen to rise and you will need to smooth it back. I made this mistake once on a rush order and ended up having to smooth everything back with my hands before it dried. Took days to get the paint off my hands!

Also with paint, remember this is a flexible item, so some paints work better than others. Oil based / enamel works well, masonary paint (and yes, I have seen this done) does not work as well as it cracks in use. As does that polyfilla 'textured' paint... and yes, I have seen that used as well. Horrible!

If you are applying a top pattern you need to get enough base paint (white or whatever) to seal the linen, else it will spread like crazy. This is particularly important on the bits that cover the stitching lines.

[Chris B]

Even following your advice that you just posted, I haven't made any of those mistakes luckily. I was putting glue on the, say 4 layers, then rolling a clean piece of linen on to the dowel, and then spreading the one layer over the body of 4 layers adding one at a time per day. I was having problems with the base layers because glue seaped through the single layer and caused it to ripple on the layer on the bottom. Once I got to 3 or 4 layers, it got very easy to work because I had a more solid surface to work.

I naturally went with oil based paint. I was trying to decide whether two coats would crack, but am thinking by your description that I should be okay with two thin coats of white. I painted the first coat on the front of the pteryges last night and will put a second coat on tonight. It seems to be adhering well and the linen really didn't soak up too much paint.

Funny you mention the paint running. I encountered that on the first cloth covered shield I ever made and have been careful to test before doing the paint jobs. I have a few pieces of scrap from the body that I am also painting white, and I will test the designs for the body on the scrap before I touch the lino.

I am planning on only painting the flaps front and back first. Next I will put Bias tape on the edges of all flaps. Then I will glue the two halves of the body together and stitch the full perimeter. Then I will paint the front of the body white. Then I will paint the designs. Then I will sew on the scales. Then I will trim the edges with Bias tape. I am hoping by doing it in this order, I will make the work easier (ie. stitching the body before the paint so I don't have to sew through painted layers and also so that the stitching gets painted the same white too). I also think it will be easier to trim the pteryges apart than trying to do them when they are already layered.

[ouragos]

I don't paint any inner surfaces as anything against the body will constantly wet then dry and paint can come off - I have seen that done as well, with a nice, red chiton turning to a white spotted red chiton by the end of a day in armour.

Pteregues - well I always make a single, top, fold over layer to finish them off rather than add anything extra to the edges. In this way it is clean lines around the 3 edges and it adds, effectively, 2 layers to the thickness.... so not all of my body layers of linen cover the pteregues as well... if you know what I mean??

A reasonable, oil based, matt white will give you 3 or 4 layers of paint and seal it well. It will not crack. I tend to use a matt enamel as that gives a really good finish (which most people want...to start with at least - until it has been used for a while!). It is probably the most expensive solution but you are only talking $25 and in the greater scheme of things it's not that bad.

The problem you will have had with glue leeching through the dry layers will be because it was not spread out properly with the spreader and you were left with blobs of glue. Once painted it will show differently, but in the overall effect it will be too subtle to stand out.

[Chris B]

So you are saying that you didn't even paint both side of the pteryges? I am not planning on painting the inside of the body and am even considering lining the whole thing with a thin layer of black wool felt on the inside although I am not sure how that will effect its retention of heat. I was just thinking of cleaning up the look of the inside some since we don't see the inside of these things anyway.

[ouragos]

No, I don't paint the inside of the pteregues. Same reason as the body. Paint can lift in heat and sweat.

On the latter point, I think you will regret adding wool to the inner side. I was in mine in the English sun at the weekend for about 3 hours - mine is scaled and you could hardly touch the outside, the inside was 'moist' to say the least. I have worn my lino over my scythian wool kit, in the sun, and it is a great way to loose weight.

Personally, I think it would be a mistake to line it in that way.