Petrol price action

[M. Demetrius]

Price per bbl is set by the OPEC (and other cartels) nations that produce the oil, not the transporters or refiners. They have a certain amount of control over production quantities, too.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Yes, but OPEC also make less than cetain other govt's do on a barrel, so their reluctance to ramp up production when others, who are making more out of it than they are to start with, request them to, is understandable!

[Tarbicus]

Yes, but OPEC also make less than cetain other govt's do on a barrel, so their reluctance to ramp up production when others, who are making more out of it than they are to start with, request them to, is understandable!

Not understandable in the slightest. So, are OPEC performing a public service as you suggested, or are they in it for profit? When they make the kinds of profits that I've seen (trillions of dollars combined) I have no sympathy.

Paul, if my neighbour gets mugged and robbed, do I just say screw them because it didn't happen to me? More so if it happens to my pensioner parents or my friends. The increases in crude price also ramps up more than just petrol price. It takes up the cost of everything, especially everything that has plastic in it. So it really does hit me in a number of ways.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

@ Jim : Yes, OPEC are making a profit, but so does every govt...and most are making more than saudi etc off their oil revenue..it's just that saudi has more than others....so what I am saying is that if you are earning $200 off a barrel, and you want someone who is earning far less than that off a barrel to help you lower their income, you cannot underrstand why they may not co-operate?

I would like to believe that what we do is a service to society....

but those who are making the biggest profit for the least effort don't seem to fit into your equation....... ... :?:

basically with out oil industry, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place.....period.... :!:

[Caius Fabius]

this is really modern politics more and more. I don't think you can have this discussion about governments, taxes and such without being modern politics. Maybe this should stop before we get over and above our desires to not focus on modern politics on this site?

[Magnus]

Just another thought though guys...when you think about any large corporations, just about all of them are stockpiling massive profits. Even look at large Banks. There's no need for that, really. If what Jim says is an accurate account of Exxon's profits, that's a bit much. The company should keep what it needs to expand new ventures and for emergency measures. The rest should balance out. But alas...

Let's face it, eventually the price of gas will reach a crescendo and something will happen. Then, miraculously a new "water" run car will come out just in time to save the day...made of course by the large auto makers! lol

There's no getting away from human greed.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

It's what I have felt right from the start...there is no way to use this subject without it being political.

But I hate to help close a post down, just want the facts to be aired....not just weighted to one side of an argument. My bad. :oops:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Whether it's the oil companies or the governments ripping us off it's all starting to affect my family

We've been getting by the last two weeks with only £6 + petrol money because our gas and electric bill came through.

It's easy to say get on a bike but there's four of us, two are under 7 and we live surrounded by winding country roads that lorries and cars bomb down at 60mph. I don't have a deathwish!

Oddly enough I had a saleman knock at the door yesterday for a company that delivers food to your door. I checked the prices and was £40 for 6 chicken kievs :lol: I had in inform him now is not really the time for people to be buying that kinda stuff!

There was a thread elsewhere on how rising fuel might affect reenactment events. I doubt it would cause a big difference but I know we had to spend quite a lot getting to one event earlier this month.

Anyhoo, off to flog more possessions on Ebay!

Sorry to hear that Kat.

[Memmia]

I was planning to return to work next month, but as it's up to a forty five mile round trip to work and back each day via the childminder- plus minder's fees have gone up- I will be returning to work for about 10 quid per week after paying the fuel/ car maintenance etc costs just to return to work. Hubby has told me not to bother going back, but we could do with the extra money no matter how small. Jobs are a bit thin on the ground locally unless you are a builder. :? roll:
I was told to 'ride a bike to work' by the local green party, but I'm not too happy about strapping a six month old to the back of a bike on a busy main road. Especially at 6 oclock in the morning :roll:

[Primvs Pavlvs]

Just another thought though guys...when you think about any large corporations, just about all of them are stockpiling massive profits. Even look at large Banks. There's no need for that, really. If what Jim says is an accurate account of Exxon's profits, that's a bit much. The company should keep what it needs to expand new ventures and for emergency measures. The rest should balance out. But alas...

Let's face it, eventually the price of gas will reach a crescendo and something will happen. Then, miraculously a new "water" run car will come out just in time to save the day...made of course by the large auto makers! lol

There's no getting away from human greed.

Matt who are we to say that a company is earning too much? Corporations are in the business to make money for the shareholders, and not to pander their investments to Joe Schmoe.

Stockpilling profits could be seen as a savings account, just like the one you and I have.

[DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS]

Matt who are we to say that a company is earning too much? Corporations are in the business to make money for the shareholders, and not to pander their investments to Joe Schmoe.

[size=200:393p4j8b]All Power to The Soviets![/size]

[Tarbicus]

Matt who are we to say that a company is earning too much? Corporations are in the business to make money for the shareholders, and not to pander their investments to Joe Schmoe.

Stockpilling profits could be seen as a savings account, just like the one you and I have.

But there lies the problem. All speculative exploration has already been paid for - there's no debt. The "villified speculators" have already financed that with their up front payments. Most of the big oil corps are debt free to the point where they're buying back shares from "outsiders" (how anti-capitalist can you get?) and have billions and billions of dollars sitting in a bank. How many "free market" corporations do you know of who are in a position to do that?

Now here's the real rub for me - as a northern Einglander, I personally think those types of corporations can quite simply f**k off and die. If you admire Rockefeller then "whatever"; but these f*****s laugh at Rockefeller. When they push the prices up of every single thing I need to quite simply live day to day (some south eastern hauliers are going to France to fill the tanks), and those of my family and friends, and also the rest of my compatriots (I'm not an island), they make themselves the enemy to me.

Perhaps the UK government overtaxed the oil, but the tax has always been a percentage of the price. If the price of the commodity is high then the tax is high, and if the profits are viewed to be utterly unreasonable then there will be more tax.

The irony is that petro-chemical components are the real profit maker, and this entire thread has focused on petrol/gas for obvious reasons (see the very first post in the thread - it's dead simple; do it or don't, but it ain't spam). Petrol is, quite simply, a pain in the arse for the likes of BP and Shell (that's near quotable and can even be found online). The whole bitching about tax is a complete red herring - they get their real big profits from other sources.

I WILL still say the thread is not about politics - it's about commerce. Any uncomfortability about the subject is ignoring the fact that many potentially political subjects have not been raised that would make it thus far political. If anyone makes it thus it will only be to get the thread shut down IMHO.

At then end of the day it goes like this, to my mind based on the simple hard statistics; when OPEC push up the price of crude oil the price at the pumps worldwide goes up. Or, when they withhold oil from the market, the price goes up, because at the end of the day it's a commodity, and if there's a scarcity of a commodity when it's an essential then it becomes highly valuable (more so than gold). When speculators see this and only need to put 6% up front (but they need to pay it off at the end of the day) I can only blame the shareholders and OPEC and governments for allowing that to happen. If a government tried to step in and stop it then, guess what - they're accused of inhibiting a free market and bully to the consumer - hard kack on them.

There's no peak oil problem - oil will be around long after we're gone. The 'peak' is down to speculators and therefore shareholders (you buy shares you're a shareholder) ceating a false economy because OPEC are witholding stock and not making the most of the fields they could tap into - deliberately, because... it pushes their share prices up.

No matter what, when OPEC and their shareholders push up the price of crude, the price at the pumps goes up. It's nothing to do with taxation, because taxes are always present regardless of what you're selling. The tax rate is transparent and can be accounted for. The reason for 'supposedly' greedy tax is because those rates are based on projections that even OPEC speculated on the price of oil being in 'x' years of time. But if the price goes up then of course the tax will be higher. Hence, the recent widfall tax in the UK, and possible one soon in the USA. Don't try and tell me that Gordon Browne, George Bush, and even Obama are clueless as to how the system works.

What I find really offensive is the idea that oil companies are providing a public service and should be respected for that, as if they're trying to save the consumer and altruistically benefit mankind. I will categorically and unashamedly say they are in it for monetary profit, de facto. There is no commercial corporation on this earth that has any other objective, because, quite frankly, it's actually almost illegal for any executive of a commercial corporation to not have the company's and shareholders profits at heart. Any other suggestion is pure and utter bol****s.

The smart players are the oil companies in world commerce.

[Libitina]

Whether it's the oil companies or the governments ripping us off it's all starting to affect my family

We've been getting by the last two weeks with only £6 + petrol money because our gas and electric bill came through.

It's easy to say get on a bike but there's four of us, two are under 7 and we live surrounded by winding country roads that lorries and cars bomb down at 60mph. I don't have a deathwish!

Oddly enough I had a saleman knock at the door yesterday for a company that delivers food to your door. I checked the prices and was £40 for 6 chicken kievs :lol: I had in inform him now is not really the time for people to be buying that kinda stuff!

There was a thread elsewhere on how rising fuel might affect reenactment events. I doubt it would cause a big difference but I know we had to spend quite a lot getting to one event earlier this month.

Anyhoo, off to flog more possessions on Ebay!

Sorry to hear that Kat.

Can I do a whip round? lol: (and it's all going on petrol!)

I was planning to return to work next month, but as it's up to a forty five mile round trip to work and back each day via the childminder- plus minder's fees have gone up- I will be returning to work for about 10 quid per week after paying the fuel/ car maintenance etc costs just to return to work. Hubby has told me not to bother going back, but we could do with the extra money no matter how small. Jobs are a bit thin on the ground locally unless you are a builder. So much for getting mothers back into the workplace.
I was told to 'ride a bike to work' by the local green party, but I'm not too happy about strapping a six month old to the back of a bike on a busy main road. Especially at 6 oclock in the morning

Argh yeah, I totally understand! Plus any adjustments affect tax credits etc so we'd end up even worse off. Very few jobs fit in with school runs/kids going down with the lurgy, school hols etc. Anyhoo, I'll have my fingers crossed for a petrol tax cut :?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Good to hear Kat! Dads are always helpfull!

Jim, all companies are about profit...no one has said otherwise, but like I said, if it wasn't for oil, there would be no discussion at all here, for as you have so rightly pointed out, there are many buy products of oil...
but the thread was a bout petrol prices.....remember.....

Now if you have something against the oil industry, thats your beef.....

All that I have tried to point out is tha tif you are going to have a go at
trying to lower the price of petrol, go about it wit hthe facts, and not just the slant you have, as you seem unable to grasp the difference between financial 'speculators, and the investors who take a gamble on exploration, development and producing a well.]

These are not the get rich quick 'speculators ' who see the oil industry as a quick way to inflate their returns, reguardless of the long term damage it does to the industry....

Believe me, the oil companies do their best to maximise production.....
even if the equipment would be better off at reduced rates....

The ways the govts want to manipulate things to help themselves look better is another matter.

[Tarbicus]

Okay.

We're never gonna see eye to eye on this, obviously, and I've waffled enough so, like others, I've said my piece (and far more than I thought I ever would or perhaps should).