Late Roman swords usage

[Medicus matt]

I think a comparison can be raised between this 6th century silver plate and the 5th century Brightampton saxon sword. I did discuss this with Tony Drake and he may explain better than me the suspension system.
The scabbard chape does look very similar aswell, in U.


As you can see, there is two pairs of scabbard sliders here.

Just to clarify, they're not 'sliders', they wrap around the edges of the scabbard at the points where the belt and lower carrier gp around the body of the scabbard. As you can see, the upper pair have buttons on them which almost certainly go through slits in the main belt as it passes over the front of the scabbard. A secondary strap, which connects to the main belt, goes around the lower pair, tilting the scabbard forward at an angle. (Re-reading this I realise that it might be hard to visualise so I'll make a sketch of the system and post a pic of it later on).

The ring arangement seen on the silver plate may be an attempt to portray something akin to the ring suspension systems seen on some Vendel period scabbards, as can be seen on this Vendel 7 style of arrangement that I made (and, as I'm a newbie, I apologise for breaking any forum rules corncerning advertising...I make scabbards and they're now a lot nicer than the one I made for Robert many years ago! :wink: ).

[Robert Vermaat]

Re-reading this I realise that it might be hard to visualise

You don't say!

and, as I'm a newbie, I apologise for breaking any forum rules

No worries! It's just that the signature is for your real name...

corncerning advertising...

No problem Matt. Advertise away.

I make scabbards and they're now a lot nicer than the one I made for Robert many years ago! :wink: ).

I may well hope so! And not upside down, either! :wink:
Joking aside folks - I've seen some of Matt's scabbards and they are beauties.

[John Conyard]

These P-shaped scabbard mounts originate with Scythians in leather, and as metal, spread East and West. Common in Japan until the 19th century, they are found on T'ang period Chinese tombs, Sassanian rock carvings, and may have been carried by some Huns. Certainly the Met. in New York has gold examples from an early 7th century Langbardic tomb near Chiusi.

The Saxon sword illustrated earlier has very traditionally western suspension mounts, as explained by Mat Bunker.

I enjoy the Eastern influence on Western equipment. But I cannot imagine P-shaped mounts were anything other than a rarity in the 4th century Western Empire.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Is that engraved leather on that Scabbard Matt? Nice work from the looks of it!

[Theodosius the Great]

I suspect the 'Goliath' scabbard is using a suspension system like the one in this drawing. It's neither the traditional 'ring' nor 'slider' systems.

But it is very similar to the sort of suspension systems seen on Avar and Magyar scabbards

Yes, so it is. I didn't think to research the Avars or Magyars - I've only been researching Frankish and Persian scabbards. Thank you, Matt.

The ring arangement seen on the silver plate may be an attempt to portray something akin to the ring suspension systems seen on some Vendel period scabbards, as can be seen on this Vendel 7 style of arrangement that I made

I think you've solved the mystery, Matt. So, the silver plate would have two fittings like the one you made for your scabbard ?

Your work looks top-notch, btw. I'd like to ask you privately if you have a website.

Laudes to you, Matt.

These P-shaped scabbard mounts originate with Scythians...
But I cannot imagine P-shaped mounts were anything other than a rarity in the 4th century Western Empire

Yes, I agree, it would make sense that the silver plate may be trying to show these scabbard mounts since the Avars were beginning to make their presence felt around the 7th century.

~Theo

[Medicus matt]

No problem Matt. Advertise away.

Really? Nice one! Presumably the 'marketplace' section would be the place for that sort of thing?

[Medicus matt]

Is that engraved leather on that Scabbard Matt? Nice work from the looks of it!

Thanks. Combination of surface tooling and raised cord-work, here's a couple of close ups....

[Medicus matt]

I think you've solved the mystery, Matt. So, the silver plate would have two fittings like the one you made for your scabbard ?

It's certainly one explanation. As has already been stated, it's not possible to see clearly; there may be a bottom strap which merges into the folds of the fabric.
Of course, as this is an early medieval attempt to portray a classical subject, it may not be depicting ANY sort of authentic arangement.

Your work looks top-notch, btw.

Laudes to you, Matt.

wink:
These two were for people who wanted something combining late roman and germanic elements so I used sliders and mouth bands from Kragehul and Vimose (or possibly Nyadam....I love all of the Danish bog deposit fittings) and late roman designs for the tooling.....

[Salvianus]

Nice work, Matt

[Agraes]

Welcome here Matt, and thanks for the explanation about the Brightampton scabbard. Waiting for the sketch :wink:

[Theodosius the Great]

Avete,

Here is the Achilles Missorium dated to the early 5th century AD.
I've never seen so many swords in a single late Roman context !
By my count there are six.



Click the link below for a higher resolution photo :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... is_344.jpg

BTW, the officer on the center right is wearing garb identical to 'Goliath' on the other silver plate.
His sword is clearly hanging from a baldric and not a belt. So, I think 'Goliath' must be wearing a baldric
as well.

~Theo